Wound / Vitality Point System from UA Question

[Nyarlathotep]

I've been DMing my group through the World's Largest Dungeon for the last year and a half (and pray nightly that I'll be done it soon). We've been using the WP/VP system presented in the Unearthed Arcana. I read a lot about how it's pretty easy for high level PCs to die because of a critical hit but that has not been my experience so far.

In a combat over the weekend, one character was bashed around by an Advanced Greater Air Elemental. After loosing all of his Vitality Points, additional damage was applied to Wound Points. When wound points ran out, the character was disabled and had to make a FORT save DC 15 to avoid dying. The PC is fairly high level so he fails this save on a 1 only. With only a 5% chance of failure, the PC chose to stand against the elemental, taking no actions and absorbing unreal amounts of damage* before the elemental finally abandoned the effort.

Am I doing this correctly? At 0 wound points the PC is disabled and must make a FORT save (DC 15) or start dying? Is the DC 15 always static? Are PC's virtually unkillable as long as they make this save? Anyone have suggestions on how to handle this? Am I doing this totally wrong?

Thanks!

*By unreal amounts of damage, I mean on the order of 100+ points of wound damage per round.

** If this should be in House Rules, could a mod please move it there?

 

[Ryan_Singer]

Why whould the elemental keep hitting him if he was disabled? In situations like that, it's best to make the PC want to act by having the bad guy attack his friends instead. Don't do things as a GM that make the system not make sense.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Why whould the elemental keep hitting him if he was disabled?

Because disabled does not equal dead. Because being disabled does not even equal being prone. Because the character was the only one who was in the Elemental's "area of control". Because the elemental had already whirlwinded his companions in a river of lava. Because the character couldn't outrun the elemental, was convinced that it would pursue him, and wanted to give his companions not in a river of lava time to escape. Because that's the way that it happened.

In situations like that, it's best to make the PC want to act by having the bad guy attack his friends instead. Don't do things as a GM that make the system not make sense.

I'm not asking for opinions on how the combat went and what you think I did wrong, I'm asking for opinions on whether or not I'm running the WP/VP points system correctly.

I'll use a more generic example:

A party of adventures is walking through the wilderness. They are attacked by a group of giants. In the ensuing battle one character runs out of Vitality Points. This same character is then hit by a power-attacking giant dealing 45 points of damage. (In this case 45 points of wound damage). The PC has a CON of 10 and is therefore reduced to 0 wound points and needs to make a FORT save (DC 15). Fortunately the PC also has a Fort save of +14. If the PC rolls a 1, then he/she is dying. Any other result and he remains disabled.

Let's say the PC makes their save. If the PC is attacked again by the same giant for another 45 points of damage, he/she still only needs to make a FORT save (DC15), again failing only on a 1. As long as the PC doesn't roll a 1 and only takes a move action, they can continue this indefinately.

Is this example correct? Is this how the WP/VP system work?

 

[Infiniti2000]

As long as the PC doesn't roll a 1 and only takes a move action, they can continue this indefinately.

Is this example correct? Is this how the WP/VP system work?

Yes to both as written. That's what many consider to be the major drawback in that variant. Some suggested modifications I've heard are allowing the wound points to go to -CON and then you die, but that's quite deadly. Another is upping the Fort save, perhaps based on damage taken.

As a side note, most groups that I've seen use WP/VP also use armor as DR, sometimes with a few tweaks.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Why not just increase the save DC by 1 for every additional save?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Unless more damage can kill the target, IMO any other fix doesn't help at all. The point of the system as I understand is for more realism. You throw that completely out the window if you can just ignore thousands of hit points of damage.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Why not just increase the save DC by 1 for every additional save?

This is now about to change to a house rule post, but I've been thinking about dropping the FORT save to DC 5 + wound damage rolled (not inflicted). What do you all think? Viable?

Thanks again, it's appreciated.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I think the wound points should somehow be cumulative. Maybe let wound points go below zero to any number, but make the DC = -wound points. I'm not sure that basing it at 5 or whatever makes much of a difference.

 

[ForumFerret]

Because disabled does not equal dead. Because being disabled does not even equal being prone. Because the character was the only one who was in the Elemental's "area of control". Because the elemental had already whirlwinded his companions in a river of lava. Because the character couldn't outrun the elemental, was convinced that it would pursue him, and wanted to give his companions not in a river of lava time to escape. Because that's the way that it happened.



I'm not asking for opinions on how the combat went and what you think I did wrong, I'm asking for opinions on whether or not I'm running the WP/VP points system correctly.

I'll use a more generic example:

A party of adventures is walking through the wilderness. They are attacked by a group of giants. In the ensuing battle one character runs out of Vitality Points. This same character is then hit by a power-attacking giant dealing 45 points of damage. (In this case 45 points of wound damage). The PC has a CON of 10 and is therefore reduced to 0 wound points and needs to make a FORT save (DC 15). Fortunately the PC also has a Fort save of +14. If the PC rolls a 1, then he/she is dying. Any other result and he remains disabled.

Let's say the PC makes their save. If the PC is attacked again by the same giant for another 45 points of damage, he/she still only needs to make a FORT save (DC15), again failing only on a 1. As long as the PC doesn't roll a 1 and only takes a move action, they can continue this indefinately.

Is this example correct? Is this how the WP/VP system work?

I think the relevant portion of the Wound Points section is as follows:

"Disabled
A disabled character is conscious, but can only take a single move or standard action each turn (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the GM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) worsen the character’s condition to dying (unless it involved healing; see below). "

In this case, the part we're concerned with is "(or any other action the GM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell)." Personally, I'd rule taking anything other than nonlethal damage is strenuous to the body, and would push the character over to Dying. There's no way that continuing to engage in combat is anything other than strenuous, though, and that would make your hypothetical character begin Dying.

 

[Infiniti2000]

In this case, the part we're concerned with is "(or any other action the GM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell)." Personally, I'd rule taking anything other than nonlethal damage is strenuous to the body, and would push the character over to Dying.

Strenuous to the body, perhaps, but taking damage is not an action, and that's explicitly called out.