D&D (2024) Wow, 5.5e characters are STRONG!

[W'rkncacnter]

Indominable?

 

[Nightfly]

3e is a perfect demonstration of why i'm always so hesitant to get into crpgs - you never know what builds will end up completely sucking halfway through unless you either let the game break your ribs a few times or you delve into a guide made by people who no longer have a ribcage.

5e is actually pretty great in this regard. Earlier this thread I namechecked Four Elements Monk as being particularly weak, which I think everyone agrees they are. But I played at a table with one of those for a long time, and you know what? He was fine. Character had his moments to shine, dude playing him was happy, all good. Likewise, I did a campaign with a Champion fighter, another consensus underpowered option, and that was fine too. I DMed an entire campaign with a PC playing a ranger, and it never felt like he was lagging behind.

None of this means those classes and subclasses shouldn't be buffed, because they should. But 5e is nice in that you don't have to ruthlessly optimize to have a good character and a good time.

(Also I'm miles off-topic, but since I started this thread, I guess no one will yell at me).

 

[Maxperson]

When I hear people say 5e is too complicated, I'm glad for them that they missed 3e. Back in 3e, you had to have a team of accountants just to roll initiative.

Or one 7 year old to do the basic addition.

 

[Horwath]

You literally cannot use them all the time. Your slots do not spontaneously regenerate in-between every one of the 6-8 daily encounters. Sure they can dominate a few fights that way, but at the cost of the rest of the adventuring day. And at the cost of utility spells.

I constantly see those who misperceive casters as having a huge advantage, as incorrectly perceiving those casters being able to dominate every fight for damage, despite martials being very close in damage when the casters do that. Then they simultaneously argue that they have all the same spells that they are using to "dominate" combat to use on utility for every thing the party will possibly encounter. At the same time ignoring that the casters won't 1) have utility spells for every situation, 2) won't have them memorized a lot of the time, 3) refuse to see the limitations of spells like Dinner Bell, I mean Knock, and 4) think that the group will just rest for a day so that the caster can memorize the spell to get through the situation, rather than just having the martials do it far sooner the mundane way.

Casters are good. They are not gods compared to martials. They are a bit better which could be made up for by giving martials a few new social and exploration abilities.

Edit: cleaned up the language a bit.

if you have 8 encounters per day and follow the daily budget, you do not even need those spells.
Cantrips and some random fireball if the horde is really big is all you need.

who even plays 8 encounters per day?
those are super easy.

most I have had is 3, maybe 4.
most of the time is 2 encounters of Deadly++ difficulty, where you spend your daily XP in 2 fights with short rest in between.

 

[Maxperson]

if you have 8 encounters per day and follow the daily budget, you do not even need those spells.
Cantrips and some random fireball if the horde is really big is all you need.

who even plays 8 encounters per day?
those are super easy.

most I have had is 3, maybe 4.
most of the time is 2 encounters of Deadly++ difficulty, where you spend your daily XP in 2 fights with short rest in between.

If you say so. Tactics make a difference, though.

 

[Azzy]

When I hear people say 5e is too complicated, I'm glad for them that they missed 3e. Back in 3e, you had to have a team of accountants just to roll initiative.

And a spreadsheet to plot your full level advancement beforehand.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Do you even know what I'm talking about? Do you even know what you're talking about? This post seriously reads like you have no idea what your last post was saying.

Mod Note:

This is a perfectly bad example of how to start a post on this site. Instead of simply addressing the problems you perceive in the posts in question, you open by attacking the poster.

That’s a poor rhetorical technique for being persuasive and it’s quite uncivil to boot. Please avoid posting like this in the future.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

if you have 8 encounters per day and follow the daily budget, you do not even need those spells.
Cantrips and some random fireball if the horde is really big is all you need.

who even plays 8 encounters per day?
those are super easy.

most I have had is 3, maybe 4.
most of the time is 2 encounters of Deadly++ difficulty, where you spend your daily XP in 2 fights with short rest in between.

Try the other way. You'd be surprised.


Edit: there is no true way to play this game. And contrary to your opinion, a lot of things in the game work way better than you or other people make it out.
Is it perfect? No. Do all classes keep up in all types of games? Probably not. Is every class and subclass good enough to be played? Yes. Are some abilities less optimal? Yes. Is there a mathematically better option? Often yes. Is the class/subclass flavourful and makes the one playing it happy? More often than not.

So while you sometime raise valid concerns (from my point of view), some others are not relevant for my kind of ganes and gamers. And assuming everyone has to feel or play the same way is not helpful for the game.

I can honestly say: if all your suggestions would make it into the game, I'd quit. But, if soem of your ideas make it in, I'd at least try them and for some I personally would be happy about.

 

[Horwath]

Try the other way. You'd be surprised.

We tried. Fights were always easy.
Unless you constantly fall into ambushes.

And when one character gets expertise in Perception that strategy goes to dumpster.

So it came down to, if encounter is not at least Deadly, no point in wasting time planning it.
Might be the case that CRs are all over the place in 5E.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

We tried. Fights were always easy.
Unless you constantly fall into ambushes.

And when one character gets expertise in Perception that strategy goes to dumpster.

So it came down to, if encounter is not at least Deadly, no point in wasting time planning it.
Might be the case that CRs are all over the place in 5E.

I edited my last post. Maybe you want to read that too.

My solution was going to a different resting model: no long rest for a single night. That spread those encounters over many days. The fun came from the uncertainty, how many encounters could come before you have a chace to rest. And the uncertainty which ones prove to be deadly.

We found this more satisfying than just upping deadliness more and more in a way that only favours spellcasters.