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lowkey13
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For myself, I'd give advantage to the one who first told me that he was persuading the guy. If the fighter's player told me that he was doing it, the warlock would be giving the fighter advantage if he helped.
I am taking full responsibility that I am beating a dead horse.
I am in the camp that Fighters could use something else in the social or exploration category. I won't die on a hill for it but I see the need.
Anyway, I'm bringing this up because during our last session, of the players said he felt like he didn't have much to do out of combat. While my bard and the warlock were sneaking and scouting, listening at doors, searching bookshelves, and translating tomes, he was looking for options to contribute. In another group we play in, this player is a wizard and feels like he has more versatility in and out of combat.
I know what the replies will be: use your background skills, role-play your character, you can skill use skills you aren't proficient in, etc. I get it, I really do. And I don't disagree. But that hasn't been enough to fully convince me Fighters wouldn't do well with something else.
So while I was looking at the PHB this morning, I had a thought: what if the Champion's Remarkable Athlete and the Battle Master's Know Your Enemy were part of the base Fighter progression?
First of all, that Remarkable Athlete is the 7th level Champion ability is ridiculous. It feels like a bad feat, or at least combined with the Athlete feat. I could also see any of the martial classes having access to an ability like this.
Second, Know Your Enemy is extremely iconic for the warrior archetype. Sizing up your opponent has many references in movies, literature, etc. It's also something unique to the fighter from the other classes.
These would give the base fighter an additional option in both the social and exploration areas.
Neither of these abilities is a "balance" issue in my mind per se. They do give the fighter more trinkets and I know one of the goals of the fighter is simplicity so I guess that could be a thing. *shrugs*
Anyway, just sharing some quick thoughts!
You know, I actually agree that the fighter could use some stuff; not because its not possible for a player to use background stuff and whatnot to make themselves useful outside of combat, but because if a new player comes in with a fighter and doesn't use that stuff, they're kind of out of luck! I noticed it because I have a new player who's playing a fighter; he's awesome in combat, but sits like a bump on a log during anything else (unless its triggering a trap, since he's got the most HP).
In real life, a group making an argument can be more persuasive than an individual. In the game world, it isn't necessarily so. (Or if the DM implements Advantage in that case, then that's how the game world actually works; and the characters would behave accordingly, since they actually live in that world.)In my opinion, the bolded portion is the problem, not fighter class. When we want to convince the DM of something, even though I'm better at persuasion than the rest of the group, we all contribute in the conversation. Why? Because we're people and people want to be heard, even if their bonuses aren't as high as the next guy.
If you stop treating your character like a person who live in the real world, and start treating them like a person who lives in the game world, then your belief about how the real world works wouldn't corrupt the way they make decisions. Meta-gaming is explicitly against the rules.If you stop treating your character like a piece in the game, and start treating him more like a person in the game,[...]
I guess that goes down to your definition of "meaningfully".[...] you will stop having an issue of not being able to participate meaningfully in non-combat as a fighter.
So that's my conflict. In an edition like this one with a fair amount of rules-based support for out of combat actions, the DM is in a more difficult position to adjudicate simply well-role-played actions when another PC may well have rules-based abilities for that very type of check.