Yet Another Mana System

[Paraxis]

Mana System.
Spell Level/Mana Cost
0= 1
1= 2
2= 5
3= 10
4= 17
5= 26
6= 37
7= 50
8= 65
9= 82

+1 mana per caster level over minimum up to your maximum caster level.

Mana is determined by a die type +cha bonus. (Cha is used because its under used, and reinforces sorcorers having more mana).
The first level you gain mana points you get the maximum ammount like hit points at first level.

Sorcorer d12
Cleric/Druid/Wizard d10
Bard d6
Paladin/Ranger d4

You gain a mana die for any level you add new spell casting ability.

I use half +1 for hit points after first level and this is a good rule for mana as well.
Use whatever rule you use for hitpoints, so if you use (HD-4+1d4) then do it for mana as well.

Mana comes back like non-lethal hit points. So a number of points equal to your level per hour.
After 8 hours of rest and 1 hour of prayer/memorization you gain back all mana points, and are able to memorize new spells for the day as normal.

Specialists cast spells from their school at a reduced cost (subtract the spell level from the mana cost, so basicly for thier school its 1,1,3,7,13,21,31,43,53,73)

Non-Spontaneous casters still pray for or memorize spells like normal except for metamagic adjustments see below. So a wizard still keeps a book and memorized what spells he will have for the day, no need to memorize a spell more then once.

Meta-magic feats can be used by spending a number of extra mana as to make it a spell of the normaly required level. You still need to be able to cast a spell of that level.
Casting a spell with a meta-magic feat takes no extra time.

Overcasting, you can cast a spell without having the needed mana. You make a Fortitude save vs 10+(negative mana points) or become exhausted once exhausted you can not overcast anymore, untile you recover mana up to a positive number again.

Bonus spells for high primary ability score still effect number of spells per day prepared for casters who need to prepare spells.

Comments and Concerns are welcome.

The idea is to make casters more effective for every encounter throughout the day but still keep the power level in check.

 

[Land Outcast]

I'm in love with the idea.

Note: I haven't done any math... yet

The only one thing I don't like is the Overcasting... no need for it, I think... hum... at least at low levels.

 

[Paraxis]

Thanks for the feedback.

The only one thing I don't like is the Overcasting... no need for it, I think... hum... at least at low levels.

I am not in love with this either but am toying around with the idea, gives a way to mimic magic being draining but having to worry about it till you run out of mana.

The math, well with the the cost structure you can only cast a few spells of your highest level usually but with the recovery of the points means you will get some back soon.

 

[Jack Simth]

Let's see if I have this straight.... under the "standard" system as you've proposed.....

A Wizard-20 with a Charisma score of 10 will have, on average, 10+5.5*19=114.5 mana points. He can cast a 9th level spell once at his full caster level (85 mana points, as the minimum caster level is 17; 82+3=85) and have 19.5 left over - enough for a 4th level spell at caster level 9, or a 3rd level spell at caster level 14, or a 2nd level spell at caster level 17, a 1st level spell at caster level 18, or a cantrip at caster level 19 (ditto for the Cleric-20 and Druid-20 at Charisma-10). In order to be able to cast another 9th level spell, he needs to wait a little over four hours.

The Sorcerer-20 with a Charisma score of 34 (base 18, +5 level up, +5 Tome, +6 Cloak - about the maximum before non-core player races) with his +12 Charisma modifier has an average of 12+6.5*19+20*12=375.5 mana points. He can cast four 9th level spells in a row at caster level 20, and have (on average) 35.5 mana points left over - enough for a 5th level spell at caster level 18.

Of course, under such a system, no Wiz/Cleric/Druid is going to be without a Cloak of Charisma for overly long... and is probably putting a decent stat roll into it, and is probably picking up the +5 Tome as able. Hmm.... definately a power-down for casters of most stripes.

 

[Paraxis]

No real need to cast a cantrip at higher levels.

Why would you cast almost any 1st level spell at 20th level?

I understand your point that the cost is high, thats kinda the point of the system, I dislike the standard system and dislike tons of high level spells.

I dislike most mana point systems because there is not enough of a difference in cost between levels to make casting lower level spells attractive, or all you do is cast a barrage of low level damage spells because the mana cost is next to nothing.

With this system, the caster does have to be very cautios when and how he casts the expensive spells.

Also magic missle for instance is not a certain thing every round because a 9th level casting will cost 10 mana.

As far as every one having a cloak of charisma, I don't allow my players to buy any magic item they want. I guess the desire to make one will go up but I don't see that as a drawback.

 

[Jack Simth]

No real need to cast a cantrip at higher levels.

I DM for a 17th+ level party, and Detect Magic is still a staple spell. Granted, under the vast majority of circumstances, caster level 1 is just fine...... but it's still a staple spell. Prestidigitation, likewise, is great for the Wizard or Sorcerer who wants a cahracter a little finicky about personal appearence.

Why would you cast almost any 1st level spell at 20th level?

You mean like Grease, Charm Person, Mage Armor, or the like?
Perhaps your Monk friend just lost his Bracers of Armor to a Disjunction. Or the Cleric isn't in the touch range for a Freedom of Movement, and you need to give your fighter buddy a quick boost to his Grapple check to escape a grapple monster (he lost his Ring of Freedom of Movement, or didn't think he needed one). Or maybe you just want this commoner-1 to let you past without raising a fuss, so you can visit the party-face rogue in the pokey.

Sure, Freedom of Movement trumps Grease, Bracers of Armor trump Mage Armor, a +5 Mithral Buckler trumps a Shield spell, and Dominate Person trumps Charm Person... but occasionally there's an exceptionally low wealth campaign, or the Cleric isn't in reach, or equipment was just lost for one reason or another, or you have reason to want longer-term control that's harder to notice via Sense Motive, or one of your 1st level spells can be made to work but you weren't expecting the situation and don't have time to prepare the perfect spell that's currently sitting in your spellbook. It depends quite a lot on the campaign.

I understand your point that the cost is high, thats kinda the point of the system, I dislike the standard system and dislike tons of high level spells.

Just running a quick analysis, with expected impact. A Wiz-20 can cast a cantrip twenty times an hour, forever - once every three minutes. Or a 9th level spell about every four hours (and some change). If you're trying to power-down casters a might, this is liable to do so. Perhaps a might much, but it will do so. If that is your goal, this house rule will succeed at that aspect. It's an analysis; no judgement of "good" one way or another was intended with my first post to this thread, although it may have leaked through.

I dislike most mana point systems because there is not enough of a difference in cost between levels to make casting lower level spells attractive, or all you do is cast a barrage of low level damage spells because the mana cost is next to nothing.

With this system, the caster does have to be very cautios when and how he casts the expensive spells.

Also magic missle for instance is not a certain thing every round because a 9th level casting will cost 10 mana.

At higher levels, that's true... but a Wizard getting max on his first die, and rolling thereafter (as HP, as you list) may find something interesting:

Even with no Charisma bonus, A Wizard-1 can get off five color sprays at 1st level, all right in a row. Sure, he's down for 10 hours after that, but he can likely dominate any 1st level encounter, a couple of times a day. If he's an Illusion specialist, he can get 10 of them off. With no rest at all. The non-specialist replenishes one Color Spray in two hours down time. The specialist can pop off a Color Spray ever hour for eternity. The Evoker-1 gets to slap down Magic Missiles from 110 feet away all day, or Burning Hands everything in sight for 1d4 damage. You've gotten rid of the massive casting at 20th.... but you may have set up something you didn't intend for levels 1-5.

As far as every one having a cloak of charisma, I don't allow my players to buy any magic item they want. I guess the desire to make one will go up but I don't see that as a drawback.

If you still let them sell for half market, and permit them to arrange down-time, they will all have Cloaks of Charisma (or Cloaks of Resistence with Charisma stacked on top, or migrated to another slot, or whatever, as permitted when Crafting) under that house rule. A primary caster can't afford not to.

 

[Land Outcast]

A primary caster can't afford not to.

Charisma would effectively be the secondary (or primary, why not?) stat of spellcasters.

I find it useful, giving greater power at lower levels and somehow reducing it at higher...

 

[Hodgie]

This is going to make Paladins way too powerful if my quick glance is right. At high levels, d4 + big charisma modifier isn't much different than d10 + big charisma modifier. 3 points / level is 60 points at 20th level. Wizards deserve to be notably better than paladins at casting spells, not just a handful of mid-level spells better.