Your ideal class orgainization

[Paul Smart]

Hello everyone

I am interested in what sort of class organization you think is ideal. If you were organizing classes for a new edition of our favorite game, how would you do it? For me, it would go something like this:

Warrior base class with the following example builds:

Fighter - a generalist simple warrior who uses all weapons and armor
Weapons Master - a specialist on one weapon or class of weapons - example Sword Master, Archery Master
Brawler - an unarmed combat specialist
Skirmisher - a lightly armored warrior like a spell-less ranger
Build your own warrior

Gish base class with the following example builds:

Paladin - heavily armed divine magic user
Arcane Knight - heavily armed arcane magic user
Ranger - lightly armored divine magic user
Spell Sword - lightly armored arcane magic user
Monk - Arcane Hand to Hand specialist
Build your own gish

Scholar base class with the following example builds:

Cleric - divine magic specialist
Mage - arcane magic specialist
Unknown name - combined divine and arcane magic specialist
Build your own scholar

Specialist base class (focused on skills)

Rogue
Warlord
Unknown name - uses technology like an engineer or tinkerer
Build your own specialist

I would love to hear your opinions on how you would do it.

 

[Blue]

The question is how many sacred cows I'm allowed to slaughter.

Let's go for the "medium-high" sacred hamburger setting. Still able to recreate what we have now, but can really mess with the classics.

For example, I'd rather a "Hero" class that full of lots of mundane goodies, covering fighter, scouts, rogues, non-casting rangers, knights, skirmishers, archers, brawlers & martial artists, you name it. Maybe you get to pick two subclasses so it's more mix-and-match then 5e classes.

Then a few *distinct* magical types. I don't care about power source (arcane, divine, etc) as much as unique feeling chassis.

Maybe one is a classical vancian caster that could mimic wizard or pure casting cleric. Let's call this Caster for reference. Strong sub-types with limited spell access. Support, Evocation, Battlefield Control, Summoning, etc.

Another might be be more flexible in implementation but very tightly themed, which could be used by sorcerers and psionic characters if that's your thing. Call this Talent until someone comes up with something better.

Another full of repeatable special abilities with some sort of currency or resource to use them that doe not feel like classic casters. This can fit for clerical domains, monk special abilities, paladin auras, and all sorts of odd bits like that. Devotion? That may be too divinely flavored of a name, but I'll use it for now.

Now that I've got these cornerstones, multiclassing rules to combine them in various ways.

Classic classes to new
Fighter -> Hero
Wizard -> Caster with a bit of Hero for skills
Cleric -> Caster with a bit of Hero for some armor/weapon and Devotion for domains
Barbarian -> Hero with some Devotion for rage
Monk -> Hero for martial arts and Devotion for ki abilities, in whatever mix you want.
Sorcerer -> Talent
Paladin -> Hero and Devotion
Rogue - Hero
"Gish" -> Hero and Talent most likely, focusing on self-buffs and the like instead of being a generalist caster. More bang for the levels but in a more limited focus. But maybe devotion for some nifty tricks that only work if you've got skill in arms and magic already.
Warlord -> Hero and Talent most likely, with support Talents. But if that's too magical then Hero and Devotional

BTW, unlike 5e, since this would really want multiclassing, the equivilent of ASI and level 5 bump would be character levels. And for class level stuff we steal from ... um, I think Book of the Nine Swords ... where class level features advanced at class level plus half of other levels. So they stay viable but doesn't mean you're good at everything with lots of multiclassing - there are real costs.

What do you know, for totally top of my head that doesn't suck too badly. Suggestions on how to improve or what fatal flaws I overlooked quite welcome.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Fighter
- Paladin
- Dark Knight
- Swordmaster

Rogue
- Thief
- Bard
- Ranger

Wizard
- Fire
- Water
- Earth
- Air

Cleric
- Priest
- Druid
- Warlock

 

[TwoSix]

I would identify every main source of power it makes sense for a D&D hero to gain power from, and build a starting class based on that. Then I would make Final Fantasy Tactics like Job system to handle every combination or evolution of those systems.

Swole Bro Badass Power - Fighter
Sneaky Power - Rogue
Secret Wisdom Training Power - Monk
Song Power - Bard
Nature Power - Druid
Church Power - Cleric/White mage
Dark Power - Warlock/Necromancer
Elemental Power - Wizard/Black mage

 

[mellored]

My ideal class organization would combine classes, sub-classes, prestige classes, and feats all together into a big option trees.

The "trunk" of these trees will follow the classic base class. So in order to have a classic class, simply go straight up the tree.
Fighter 1 -> Fighter 2 -> Fighter 3 -> Fighter 4 -> Fighter 5 -> ect...
Wizard 1-> Wizard 2 -> Wizard 3-> Wizard 4 -> etc...

The "sub-classes", "specilizations", "presige-clases", and "feats" would "branch" off the main class.
Battle Master (prerequisite: fighter 2) -> Battlemaster 2 (prerequisite fighter 5).
-Archery 1 (prerequisite, fighter 1)
--Sharpshooter 1 (prerequisite Archery 2).
Illusionist 1 (prerequisite Wizard 2).
--Nightmare Spinner (prerequisitie Illusionist 1)
Evoker 1 (prerequistite Wizard 2).
-Pyromancer 1 (prerequisite Evoker 1).

Though there could be some cross-tree ones too.
Paladin 1 (Prerequisite fighter 1, Cleric 1)
Ranger 1 (Prerequisite fighter 1, Druid 1)


"Multi-classing" is easily done just taking different options, but taking different branches is also allows. say... Fighter 5/archery 1/battlemaster 2/champion 2/Rogue 1.


Also just get flat out get rid of ability scores, and tie skills to the classes.
Fighter boost athletics, wizard boost arcana, bard boost performance, rogues boost stealth, clerics get religion, etc...


*Most of the number scaling would be independent of class level. 5e half-way does this with proficiency bonus, but a fighter 18/wizard 1 should be able to cast burning hands that did decent damage, in addition to increasing DC of charm person. Though barbarians will still get a few extra HP.

 

[Gladius Legis]

I'd keep them exactly as they are. Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

[Blue]

I would identify every main source of power it makes sense for a D&D hero to gain power from, and build a starting class based on that. Then I would make Final Fantasy Tactics like Job system to handle every combination or evolution of those systems.

Swole Bro Badass Power - Fighter
Sneaky Power - Rogue
Secret Wisdom Training Power - Monk
Song Power - Bard
Nature Power - Druid
Church Power - Cleric/White mage
Dark Power - Warlock/Necromancer
Elemental Power - Wizard/Black mage

Can you expand on the Final Fantasy Tactics job system? I'm not familiar and I'm having problems picturing classic clerics and paladins being the same class. Or getting enough differentiation between wizards and sorcerers if they are the same class.

 

[Blue]

I'd keep them exactly as they are. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Oh, I really like 5e. This is just a fun what-if.

 

[mellored]

I don't care about power source (arcane, divine, etc) as much as unique feeling chassis.

I don't see that as being an either-or situation.

Matching a power source to a chassis seems like it would be both easy to do and thematic.


Martial -> Hero -> at-will. You don't run out of skill.

Divine -> Talent -> Short rest points, thematic. You are granted amount of power from a greater being. You need to spend a few minutes to reconnect to and refresh. The greater the magic being, the more followers he support. Thus gods can support many clerics, a greater demon can support a few warlock, and an individual dragon can only support a single sorcerer.

Arcane -> Caster -> Daily. You have access to a wide variety of powerful effects, but you need time to prepare them. You can carry a few, ready to relase at a moments notice.

 

[Paul Smart]

I don't see that as being an either-or situation.

Matching a power source to a chassis seems like it would be both easy to do and thematic.


Martial -> Hero -> at-will. You don't run out of skill.

Divine -> Talent -> Short rest points, thematic. You are granted amount of power from a greater being. You need to spend a few minutes to reconnect to and refresh. The greater the magic being, the more followers he support. Thus gods can support many clerics, a greater demon can support a few warlock, and an individual dragon can only support a single sorcerer.

Arcane -> Caster -> Daily. You have access to a wide variety of powerful effects, but you need time to prepare them. You can carry a few, ready to relase at a moments notice.

That is a very interesting At Will, Short Rest, Daily breakdown. I like.