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Zombie Outbreak - where to hide?

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Zaruthustran said:
The danger being, of course, that if zombies can pop up in Iowa, they can certainly pop up in Hawaii. :)

If they don't show up by walking across the sea floor, they'll show up in a ship, or a plane, or on a surfboard...

The "zombie attack" scenario is predicated on the idea that being a zombie is in some way akin to a disease - so any time you could get a disease carrier into your safe place, you could get a zombie. Populated islands - like the common touristy ones, or really any of them that are on a map, are thus a bad place - once zombies get on the island, you have few escape routes.

One of the major issues in defending against zombies for more than a day or two is defending yourself against fellow humans who also want your safe place. if you don't allow it... well, the moral implications are hefty. If you do allow it, the risk of getting a zombie inside, or running out of supplies, is greater.

A whole lot of people are going to think that the islands are going to be safe. What happens when they show up on your heels?
 

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Nadaka

First Post
There are no shortage of guns available, all 3 wal-marts in my town have a wide range of shotguns and rifles, with tens to hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo in each one. How many bullets are in 64 cubic feet of ammunition boxes? The wal-mart I used to work at had 8 of these pallets in the back room, plus a couple thousand boxes of ammo behind the sportin' goods counter. And most of the people I know already have one or more guns. Hunting is a major sport around here.
 

usdmw

First Post
I'm going with a cruise ship. Supplies for hundreds of persons, a handful of guns for security, and once you can make it completely inaccessible. Lots of leisure possibilities as well, obviously.

Of course ANY ship would do, but the Queen Mary would be sweet.
 

Darkwolf71

First Post
Umbran said:
Dude, if you haven't read WWZ, your opinion of Mr. Brooks' writing is... woefully uninformed.
As I said, now that I am through most of what is available, I will likely be reading it this winter.
Umbran said:
Mayhaps, if you are already a farmer, so that you already have the equipment and seed available.

I think, when the zombie hordes are marching, you'll have other fish to fry than trying to get a plow and something to pull it up into some mountain meadow...
I grew up in a large family (10 kids). We grew enough veggies for us all quite fine without 'equipment' other than shovels and hoes. With good honest labor a dozen or even two could survive very well with very basic materials.



Jim Hague said:
It's a fictional universe, and the book's based off of military survival manuals. Misjudgements how?
It's been a couple years since I read it, but if I have time before reading WWZ, perhaps I will refresh my memory.



Jim Hague said:
I'll second his words - having lived in San antonio and central Texas for most of my life, his descriptions of the area are...pretty laughable. As well, his portrayal of a sterotypical 'special forces weapons expert' protagonist are weak sauce, IMO. Zombie survival fiction is about ordinary people in horrifying, extraordinary circumstances. While the story has some interesting bits, it falls down badly in several areas as far as verisimillitude goes.
Your opinion is very interesting, considering the protagonist is not, in fact, a 'special forces weapons expert'. He is a pilot. No, not even a combat pilot, he flies a friggen reconnaissance aircraft. He is very much an ordinary person, who happens to have some military training. Not some John Rambo bad-ass.

Dave Wellman's 'Monster' series is an interesting take on a Rise. Available for free, but I heartily encourage people to grab the books.
Having a hard time googling that. Link?
 

WayneLigon

Adventurer
The Distribution Center idea is great. The Walking Dead has the main characters holed up in a prison for a considerable amount of time; I thought that was brilliant.

A zoo is another good idea. Some security but not too onerous. Fences, moats, and large caged areas should provide enough cover for a group of people, plus the animals will probably give you some warning if a break-in occurs (though you'd have to learn to feed them and in time you'll run out of special food).
 

Jim Hague

First Post
Darkwolf71 said:
Your opinion is very interesting, considering the protagonist is not, in fact, a 'special forces weapons expert'. He is a pilot. No, not even a combat pilot, he flies a friggen reconnaissance aircraft. He is very much an ordinary person, who happens to have some military training. Not some John Rambo bad-ass.

Given the protagonist's focus on his booby-trapping and acquistion of weapons, he doesn't seem so much a pilot. The guy across the street is, frankly, more interesting.

Having a hard time googling that. Link?

Monster Island is the first book:
http://www.brokentype.com/monster/

One thing that the Monster books points out is that the Third World, while not making out terribly well, does a lot better than then First World, thanks to bands of heavily-armed tribal fanatics and a rigorous adherence to the concept of 'sanitization' - exterminating the dead.
 

Celebrim

Legend
A safe haven in a zombie outbreak crisis needs to meet the following qualifications:

1) Away from major population centers. No matter how defensible it is, if the zombie horde is large enough, they will break though. So, it has to be at least rural, if not the wilderness.
2) Presents a minimal hazard to you from competing survivors during the transition to a post-apolyptic society. For this reason, a maximum security prison is out. You are competing for space with too many fellow survivors who are proven to behave in dysfunctional ways when placed under stress. Such a fortress-like setting as a jail might be safe headquarters in the long run after the transition has made and everyone left alive understands what the real foe is, but in the short term is not trustworthy. Similarly, truly rural settings are probably not safe unless you yourself have provable rural credentials, as under pressure, normally hospitable rural communities are likely to lapse toward thier normally supressed undercurrent of xenophobia and hostilitity to strangers. Other survivors are likely to see your arrival as a threat to thier security.
3) Is defensible. To be defensible, I consider that it must be above ground, have defensible entrances, have multiple stories, overlook a defensible open space of arrable ground, have short (stored water) and long term water supply options (you can dig a well), be constructed of materials that resist bludgeoning by inhumanly strong undead flesh, have short (propane) and long term (solar panels) fuel supplies, and sufficient habitable space for the survivors in time of seige.
4) Isn't a death trap. You have to be able to retreat. One problem with places like islands, skyscrapers, and caves and such is that once your outer perimeter is breached, the seige becomes indefinate. Undead can just wait you out. You need a location that you can break out of if you have to.
5) Isn't likely to be a nexus of a major zombie outbreak. Hospitals are bad in several ways, one of which is that zombie attack survivors will likely congregate here and many of these will turn into zombies themselves. Research facilities are bad for similar reasons.

Whether any particular location meet these qualifications is probably dependent on the particular location. You can't just describe a class of buildings and assume that they all work.

Retail distribution hubs and warehouses are pretty good choices it seems to me. The advantage I see here is that they require minimal short term preparation. Long term, many companies have been going 'green' so there is even a good possibility that you've got some solar panels on the roof to give you the basic juice you need to start building your post-apocalyptic society and recovering civilization.

Supermarkets on the other hand are probably bad. Too many survivors will be going there to loot supplies, competition will inevitably ensue, and they tend to be in highly urban areas convienently located to large populations. Plus, the large glass doors will require alot of initial preparation to adequately defend.

Certain tourist locations in the off season offer intriguing possibilities. Among these are ski resorts and elevated beach side hotels (the ones raised on columns to resist hurricanes).

Some university buildings are possibilities and certainly the 'self-contained city' aspect is attractive in the long run, but the problem here is short term population density. Too many low resource survivors are in the immediate vicinity. The local resources will be overwhelmed. Add to that the fact that most campuses are fairly urban, and you just can't trust them.

Some monestaries on the other hand are still built along the older fortress like model, and many are quite rural. Assuming you bring your own weapons and can gain acceptance from the locals, that might not be a bad choose. And who knows, maybe these zombies can be turned by a cleric with sufficient faith.
 

Klaus

First Post
WayneLigon said:
The Distribution Center idea is great. The Walking Dead has the main characters holed up in a prison for a considerable amount of time; I thought that was brilliant.

A zoo is another good idea. Some security but not too onerous. Fences, moats, and large caged areas should provide enough cover for a group of people, plus the animals will probably give you some warning if a break-in occurs (though you'd have to learn to feed them and in time you'll run out of special food).
OR...

you could train them to cut down those zombies (animals don't tend to be zombified in most scenarios). I don't care how undead a zombie is, it is still a human body. It is no match for a wide variety of predators.
 

Nadaka

First Post
Jim Hague said:
Given the protagonist's focus on his booby-trapping and acquistion of weapons, he doesn't seem so much a pilot. The guy across the street is, frankly, more interesting.



Monster Island is the first book:
http://www.brokentype.com/monster/

One thing that the Monster books points out is that the Third World, while not making out terribly well, does a lot better than then First World, thanks to bands of heavily-armed tribal fanatics and a rigorous adherence to the concept of 'sanitization' - exterminating the dead.

That I don't really buy. Good old fashioned highly trained US armored cavalry is vastly more lethal than any number of AK toting, heroin smoking, brainwashed, preteen death squads. Particularly against mindless zombies that tend to swarm.

Any tank or APC will be pretty much immune to everything the zombies can do. Plus they can run the zombies down if ammunition runs a bit short. Even the machine gunner is 100% safe in the urban warfare variants with remote turrets.
 

TheYeti1775

Adventurer
Nadaka said:
That I don't really buy. Good old fashioned highly trained US armored cavalry is vastly more lethal than any number of AK toting, heroin smoking, brainwashed, preteen death squads. Particularly against mindless zombies that tend to swarm.

Any tank or APC will be pretty much immune to everything the zombies can do. Plus they can run the zombies down if ammunition runs a bit short. Even the machine gunner is 100% safe in the urban warfare variants with remote turrets.

Where are you filling up the tank at? ;)
 

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