Zone of Speed, outrageous?

[Caliban]

Solid fog does pretty much the same thing and also provides concealment.

Yes, but since Solid Fog also provides concealment to those within it, you can't target them with Magic Missiles, etc.

Also, it only reduces their speed by 1/10th, meaning characters with a high speed can get out much faster.

Zone of Speed is the same level as Solid Fog, and much more effective, since it set's an absolute speed limit, and still allows you to target people caught within it with spells.

Also, Solid Fog can be burned off in one round with a fireball or similar magic. Zone of Speed cannot.

(Freedom of Movement would still allow anyone to move normally through either spell though.)

It seems to me that zone of speed should be higher level than Solid Fog.

 

[JLXC]

I agree with Caliban.

There is worlds of difference between 1/10th your Speed and Speed = 1.

Also, Solid Fog blocks the casters sight don't it? Zone of Speed allows the catser to cast without this problem.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

yep - spell is unbalanced - esp when compared to solid fog.

 

[Plane Sailing]

FWIW I agree with you JXLC. It is one of the spells that I read in Montes work and said "Uh-oh, definitely not!"

I'm pretty strict about what spells I let into my campaign beyond the PHB, and that one was right out - too many abuses for my liking.

Cheers

 

[BMF]

You cast on any group of non-magic users and they are useless for several rounds while they try to move, and they cannot use any physical ranged attacks of any kind.

boo-hoo!



That's why it a 4th level spell.

First of all, any group of characters stupid enough to stand in a huddle deserve to get every area of effect spell thrown at them that the players can muster. If they spread out a little, some will be able to escape the are in a few rounds.

Furthermore, even if a creature is caught right in the middle, it is only 20 feet from the edge. If its speed is reduced to 1, it can take a x4 move action and be out of the area in 5 rounds. Meanwhile, it is protected from all missile attacks, and everyone else around it is moving at the same speed.

Is this a well balanced 4th level spell? No Save... No SR... only defense = Teleport or the like / Dispel Magic...

Wall of force is a 5th level spell and is very difficult to counter without teleport. Any spell is difficult to deal with if you don't have dispel magic.

I think you are just attempting to justify your desire to rule out a perfectly fine spell because you can't deal with it when your players use it. Instead of telling them "you can't do that," why don't you try to find a way "in game" to solve the problems this spell causes. That's what the game is about. TACTICS. Its not about pathetic DMs crying every time their players use a feat or spell or combo that they can't think of a way around.

I get so tired of hearing people whine "Oh, this is broken, its SO munchkin" every time their players find a "killer combo."

Is it balanced?? Well, in my book it passed the first test of balance. The wizard I'm playing right now doesn't have that spell. I'd rather have stoneskin, improved invis. and polymorph self.

 

[IceBear]

I do think that it should be a higher level that Solid Fog.

Another thought, change the minimum speed to 5 or 10, instead of 1.

IceBear

 

[Plane Sailing]

I do think that it should be a higher level that Solid Fog.

Another thought, change the minimum speed to 5 or 10, instead of 1.

That is an interesting idea - with a minimum speed of 5 it might be vaguely usable. I still don't think I'll risk it for my campaign though.

And in response to BMF:

a) in Dungeons a 20'r spell can easily fill a room. Lots of adventures take place in dungeons when it is much more difficult for a party to spread out.

b) it doesn't reduce everyones speed to 1ft (enabling running 4ft). It reduces everyones maximum distance travelled to 1ft. Thus they would still take 20 rounds to get out. (and even if it took 5 rounds to get out they could be magic-missiled or poison-gassed to death long before that happened)

Cheers

 

[IceBear]

Ya...that's why *if* I used the spell in my game (I rarely add things to my game from splatbooks without due consideration), I wouldn't let the speed drop below 10ft. This would still give you protection from missles, but would allow trapped characters to escape within 2 rounds. With this change I'd probably leave the level alone.

IceBear

 

[JLXC]

boo-hoo!



That's why it a 4th level spell.

First of all, any group of characters stupid enough to stand in a huddle deserve to get every area of effect spell thrown at them that the players can muster. If they spread out a little, some will be able to escape the are in a few rounds.

Furthermore, even if a creature is caught right in the middle, it is only 20 feet from the edge. If its speed is reduced to 1, it can take a x4 move action and be out of the area in 5 rounds. Meanwhile, it is protected from all missile attacks, and everyone else around it is moving at the same speed.

Wall of force is a 5th level spell and is very difficult to counter without teleport. Any spell is difficult to deal with if you don't have dispel magic.

I think you are just attempting to justify your desire to rule out a perfectly fine spell because you can't deal with it when your players use it. Instead of telling them "you can't do that," why don't you try to find a way "in game" to solve the problems this spell causes. That's what the game is about. TACTICS. Its not about pathetic DMs crying every time their players use a feat or spell or combo that they can't think of a way around.

I get so tired of hearing people whine "Oh, this is broken, its SO munchkin" every time their players find a "killer combo."

Is it balanced?? Well, in my book it passed the first test of balance. The wizard I'm playing right now doesn't have that spell. I'd rather have stoneskin, improved invis. and polymorph self.

You kill your own argument with the above comments.

Stupid Enough to stand close to eachother? This comment always makes me laugh. I guess none of your adventures ever take place in a limited area? Your PC's are always 30 to 50 ft apart huh?

Even with 1 speed it only takes 5 rounds to get out! Wow what a great argument! A No Save, No SR spell that stops you flat for 5 rounds! Then they can cast it on you again! You're right... that's not tough for 4th freakin level.

Wall of Force is a 5th level spell and is WEAKER than this spell. You cannot fireball and use magic on characters on the other side of a Wall of Force. Thanks for supporting my argument.

" I think you are just attempting to justify your desire to rule out a perfectly fine spell because you can't deal with it when your players use it."

This is insulting and dumb all at the same time. None of my players use it at all, as the spell is banned. None of them has even asked because they read it and laughed along with me. Some of us can look at a spell OBJECTIVELY, not just for it's Min/Max value. In any limited space enviroment, which is many adventures, this spell is at least 6th level of effect. Yeah that's just the DM crying. No Save, No SR, is HUGE. As a DM I like to think about things like... what if I used this against the players. Would this be an ok 4th level level spell to use on them. Invariably I would say no. So I actually was thinking of my PLAYERS, and not my DMing. Gee I'm so Evil.

I'm glad it passed your balance test. It sure don't pass mine, or apparently other peoples as well. Not at 4th level, nope.

 

[Madfox]

Also, Solid Fog can be burned off in one round with a fireball or similar magic. Zone of Speed cannot.

(Freedom of Movement would still allow anyone to move normally through either spell though.)

It seems to me that zone of speed should be higher level than Solid Fog.

Actually, that is a 2nd edition idea you are having here. In 3rd edition Solid Fog is not suspectible to flames (at least not the version in the SRD). Of course, it can still be destroyed with a good gust of wind. Also the range and area of affect of solid fog is better (medium, 30 ft-r and 20 ft hight). The spell also prevents hinders actual combat, but that is more of a two-sided edge.

Still, I am inclined to agree that it perhaps would be better as a 5th lvl spell or when the minimum max movement should be 5 ft.