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I like it! It encourages a new kind of Fighter stickiness through grabbing; essentially, the Defender role is focued on single enemies at a time.
Did you mean to leave out the Shield Bonus to AC/Reflex? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but there might be other sources of Shield Bonuses that don't require holding either a shield or a weapon in the off-hand.
I just gave the ac and damage adjustment in order to balance out the fact that this build basically requires you to leave one of your hands empty- normally that's a complete waste, so something had to be done to rebalance it.
Sorry, that was worded poorly. I mean, did you intend the bonus to AC & Reflex while holding a versatile weapon to be untyped? For example, even the two-weapon defense feat is a shield bonus. I don't see immediately where this could be a problem, but if, for example, a set of bracers would give a shield bonus (not looking at books now, not sure if that even exists), then the two could stack.
Sorry, that was worded poorly. I mean, did you intend the bonus to AC & Reflex while holding a versatile weapon to be untyped? For example, even the two-weapon defense feat is a shield bonus. I don't see immediately where this could be a problem, but if, for example, a set of bracers would give a shield bonus (not looking at books now, not sure if that even exists), then the two could stack.
Oh, I see. Yeah, if the Tempest types their defense bonuses, I'll type these as well. I'll update the pdf tomorrow.
I can't think of anything that would create a problem, but it doesn't hurt to be certain.
Another question that didn't at first occur to me:
Did you mean to leave Small characters out of this build? I doubt this was the intent, and I'm sure we can all appreciate the image of a battle-crazed halfling clinging on for dear life while gutting opponents. I get the feeling you can modify the versatile keyword requirements to better reflect Small characters opting for this build. Of course, this would also impact the text for many powers, if by "Large" you meant "one size category larger than you".
Of course, if you didn't want halflings taking this, you should probably make a size requirement for taking Brutal Fencer.
Alternatively, this could be a nice start for a slightly different form of Brutal Fencer, perhaps in a Paragon Path: rather than throwing opponents around, you actually climb onto them to deliver fatal blows.
As a quick caveat, I don't know why they didn't provide better small-character rules. I understand they wanted them to be able to use one-handed weapons without the weapon shrinkage gimp of 3.5, but from there things really get complicated.
The real problem is that its a real bear to come up with a fair way to make rules for small sized fighters and other strength based melee combatants. In a way, they almost need their own powers or class.
The idea rocks, but Brutal Fencer? I mucked around with fencing for a few years and it seems more of an elegant, precise way to slaughter somebody than say bashing them to death with a fire extinguisher, which is the kind of thing I reserve 'brutal' for.
Yeah not very constructive, I know. I like it though, and I might use this class in my groups. (maybe renamed as the Lethal Fencer or some such : D)
I figured "brutal" fit since you're mostly using your off hand to grab the other guy by the neck while you gut him. Its really not a true fencing style, where your off hand is held back for safety. I just couldn't come up with a better name. Got any ideas?
And how about giving proficiency with Rapiers as a class feature? Edit: Whoops, forgot Rapiers aren't a versatile weapon
Also it would be cool to see some actual techniques of swordsmanship involved that fit the grab and stab style.
e.g. Swordmasters of old would sometimes use their cloaks with their off hand, whipping it at an opponent to distract them, throwing it over his blade to trap it, or casting it over his head if the opportunity presented itself.
Last edited by sozomai; 23rd October 2008 at 07:56 AM..
Just a thought on the wording of some of the powers. Several say a foe of Large size or smaller, wouldn't it be better to say a foe one size larger then you? That way you cover small size characters and size altering mechanics.
The best way to handle Small and weapons is to throw the rules away since being Small gives exactly zero advantages over Medium. If Halfling rogues don't have to worry about weapon choices there's no reason to make Rangers and Fighters et al worry. Also its pretty silly that Halfling Wizards can't use Staves as weapons.
I did that for the Halfling Paladin in my game so he could use a longsword like a real Paladin and not have to use a scimitar.
And Brutal Fencer is a great name. If you always equate Fencing to the modern sport variety it might seem odd, but if you know that the word 'Fence' is simply a contraction of 'Defence' then it is perfectly fitting.
Just a thought on the wording of some of the powers. Several say a foe of Large size or smaller, wouldn't it be better to say a foe one size larger then you? That way you cover small size characters and size altering mechanics.
I'll probably make that change next time I update the document.
Grabbing someone in pro fighting is called "clinching". Striking someone in the clinch is referred to as "dirty boxing" unless it's Muay Thai.
This guy isn't unarmed, however, some of these words could be used.
Clinch Fighter is the build, Clinch Technique is the name of the style?
Btw, this is very similar to an idea I had for an unarmed combatant called a Pankratiast. Only his mechanic wasn't one of his at will's he chooses, but a class feature that is a minor action, grab the target, give opponent penalty to escape.
__________________ I will build a throne with the skulls of my foemen.
I figured "brutal" fit since you're mostly using your off hand to grab the other guy by the neck while you gut him. Its really not a true fencing style, where your off hand is held back for safety. I just couldn't come up with a better name. Got any ideas?
I like the "brutal" in the name because I have a class idea I have been working on a which needs a dash of "Darth Vader" like, left hand use .. ... and yes I had been thinking of versatile weapons in this context. I hadn't thought of using the grab as a form of defenders mark (I have simulationist issues trying to figure out marking at times, I let myself figure it means individual who has the highest threat in martial powers its based on position and only one can be the highest threat... the most distraction from threat).
Fencing Fighter should be another build.
Fencing has the offhand normally held back to enhance your balance as well as assuring a smaller target both scream AC perhaps with the latter limited to a single opponent to me A Fencer could be given just the armor class bonus when they have an empty off hand whether the weapon was versatile or not. (like swordmage but martial). Perhaps it is actually a bonus against being knocked prone and an armor class reflex bonus for self against a marked opponent. Maybe make this bonus better if wearing light armor so we encourage Pirates and Musketeer types who dont want to think of them selves as rogues?
Last edited by Garthanos; 18th February 2009 at 04:49 PM..
Reason: expanding on the idea of a Fencer build as a separate build.
Its really not a true fencing style, where your off hand is held back for safety. I just couldn't come up with a better name. Got any ideas?
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