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I know its been a long time between updates for a lot of reasons and that can be frustrating. Sorry for that.
I'm still hopeful to do Pathfinder print products and perhaps a key 4E print product or two (a Tome 4E perhaps), but abiliity to product the 4E print stuff is proving to be difficult. Retailers are less than excited about 4E supplemental material. Distributors even less so. Print partners still less excited.
All you know my desire to support 4E and my many plans, some of which are even under way. Right now, the 4E PRINT plans dont look like they are going to happen.
I dont want this to turn into a "yeah Pathfinder, boo 4E" thread. Any such posts will be deleted. This is an update thread, not an edition wars thread.
Other than a key 4E product, such as a Tome 4E, I dont see Necro doing much in the way of print 4E products. That leaves us with the possibility of pdf products. That is not necessarily bad, but it would reflect a shift in our traditional product strategies and will require different analysis on how to go forward.
In large part this situation is due to the delay of an acceptable GSL. Not having one at launch created a huge slowdown of momentum as well as a retailer and distributor gap where distributors didnt have 3Ps plugged in to the product array for 4E. Now, having no 3P track record for 4E they are wary (and probably happy to have some of it go away). Had there been a GSL at launch I think we would have hit a few big products and gotten distributors on board for 3P products for 4E. But that didnt happen. Now I think we have a chasm we just cant cross with anything but a tiny selection of key 4E products, such as a Tome 4E. But that said, even the idea of a Tome 4E has been floated by those who matter and even for a product like that there is less than total enthusiasm.
All that said, we are exploring pdf and print on demand options.
It would be fair to say that I am frustrated by the path 4E and 3P support for 4E has taken and that we, essentially, had the ability taken from us to support 4E by the mishandling of the GSL. I say that while at the same time applauding Scott Rouse's tireless fight to get the GSL revised--which he did and did well. I just wish there were more people at Wizards who "got it" like Scott did and were on board. Its really too bad. 3E was truly a golden age of D&D, a revival of all that was great from the early years of the game. Its too bad that same feeling and fervor couldnt happen for 4E. Maybe I was naive to ever think it could, but I did think that.
All this means is likely no big 4E print products (maybe one or two at most) and perhaps only a few Pathfinder print products. We are still in contact with Paizo and have a good relationship there. We still have great connections for online and print on demand products and are working with OBS to achieve those things. Its just that our hoped for print lineup will likely not happen.
I know this means more waiting for all of you and I am sorry for that.
I hesitated to post this because some will say "Necro is folding." Thats not the case at all. We are just being forced by external factors to shift our product plans. I felt all of you were owed an update and an explanation about that.
Clark
Last edited by Sunderstone; 18th June 2009 at 05:58 PM..
Sounds like the distributors are playing it save, not the least because of the crisis (and the glut of 3e 3pp book problem we had at some time). Bugger that itīs so hard for good companies like Necromancer to get stuff accepted / into the chain.
Yeah, verily: back then, we didnīt know how good it was, until it ended (somewhat). Not that i need 3pp, but i know many people are excited by them. Oh well.
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Necromancer: since you have worked with Kenzerco in the past, are there any chances that you would support the new HackMaster RPG with adventures and supplements?
I think the market is taking a two-sided assault; the economy in general is taking a hit (less money to spend on leisure item) and a general feeling 4e is not outselling 3e for the same time in the product line (aka same time in 2001). Add on the slow sales by 3pp (excluding a handful) and you get a recipie for stalling in the d20 market.
I foresee a lot more PDF/LuLu methods of distribution being the norm for 3PP D&D books, retro-clone to 4e.
I think the market is taking a two-sided assault; the economy in general is taking a hit (less money to spend on leisure item) and a general feeling 4e is not outselling 3e for the same time in the product line (aka same time in 2001).
During the time period of 2000-2001, the economy was hit by the bursting of the dotcom bubble and subsequent collapse, along with 9-11. Though one could argue that the dotcom collapse + 9-11 problems were not as widespread across the entire economy, compared to the real estate bubble collapse in recent times which does appear to be more far reaching and widespread. This time around it does feel quite different than back in 2000-2001.
Sad news. Doesn't hugely effect me, I have no FLGS and only buy WotC products in paper form, mostly. Shipping here costs a bomb. But sad news for the 3PP industry, I hope this is not the end of some good companies.
Well they paused everything once 4e was announced. Then announced a whole buch of 4e stuff only to not get the GSL. Then when it did come it was unusable to them.
They are not a full time company so they could wait. Unlike others, paizo, goodman and green ronin to name 3
But it seems as a downside no one will touch 4e stuff from them, sad for 4e necro fans
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
I wonder how Goodman is doing with their 4e stuff?
They seem to have a bunch of 4e print products in the works. I was only on their website yesterday.
__________________ Pablo El Vagabundo
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They seem to have a bunch of 4e print products in the works. I was only on their website yesterday.
Not only "in the works" but already out! There are at least 8 4E compatible modules out, and a couple of other resource type books, not to mention Points of Light 1, and now 2.
So Goodman is definitely putting out the product, and presumably still selling strong.
Goodman did the smart thing, he realized the importance of "riding the wave", so he went with 4E compatibility via copyright, rather than wait on the GSL, so Goodman never missed a stride. Unfortunately Necro wasn't being nearly as business savy, and now we miss out on more of their good products.
I'll be happy with what we do get, but I know I would have been happier if Necro had jumped on the wave similar to Goodman.
Oh well, business is still largely a crap shoot, and Necro rolled badly.
Edit: Oops! My bag! Goodman has at least 12 modules out, plus an adventure in their 4E Level Up! magazine. Plus the other books, so going REAL strong by the looks of things.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
-1E DMG, page 230
Last edited by Treebore; 18th June 2009 at 11:29 PM..
That's right, because they are in fact not 4e products. Just in case anyone might make that (easy enough to make) mistake. I know I did until recently, when I happened to stumble upon a review.
That's right, because they are in fact not 4e products. Just in case anyone might make that (easy enough to make) mistake. I know I did until recently, when I happened to stumble upon a review.
PoL2 does use some 4E terminology in its descriptions - unlike PoL1.
Hopefully they explain what those 4E terms mean beacuse I've ordered PoL2, but don't play 4E.
If not, well, maybe one of you 4E fans will get a gift.
That's right, because they are in fact not 4e products. Just in case anyone might make that (easy enough to make) mistake. I know I did until recently, when I happened to stumble upon a review.
They are 4E products, in that they are "edition neutral". Your certainly not going to find any new cool powerz in them, but if your looking for good setting material, they are worth checking out. They are done in the 4E "Points of light" theme that WOTC pushed for 4E FR, though. However, if your fan of how The Wilderlands, Greyhawk, or parts of Mystara felt, then you will likely be interested in Points of Light. Not to mention Goodmans own world setting in DCC 35.
These products are for those DM's who have blank spots on their maps, and looking for something with which to fill it, that is simple and leaves lots of room for customization.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
PoL2 does use some 4E terminology in its descriptions - unlike PoL1.
Hopefully they explain what those 4E terms mean beacuse I've ordered PoL2, but don't play 4E.
If not, well, maybe one of you 4E fans will get a gift.
If the terms are in the 4E PH I can tell you the definitions.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
They are 4E products, in that they are "edition neutral".
Er. . .
I'm not quite sure how to process that one. If they're equally 3e products, AD&D products, etc., etc. . . . and they're marketed by the creators as systemless, or edition neutral, or something like that. . . hm. No, I just don't get it.
But hey, it's all good. Whatever works, and stuff.
edit --- Hrm, didn't realise that about PoL II. OK, well maybe that one *is* slightly 4e-ish. The first one, not one bit.
Well they (Necromaner Games) paused everything once 4e was announced. Then announced a whole buch of 4e stuff only to not get the GSL. Then when it did come it was unusable to them.
They are not a full time company so they could wait. Unlike others, paizo, goodman and green ronin to name 3
But it seems as a downside no one will touch 4e stuff from them, sad for 4e necro fans
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebore
I'll be happy with what we do get, but I know I would have been happier if Necro had jumped on the wave similar to Goodman.
Oh well, business is still largely a crap shoot, and Necro rolled badly.
I don't think Necromancer made any bad business decisions, it's just that they are a very different company than Goodman Games. I'm sure they both love what they do, but Goodman is in serious business to earn a profit, and Necromancer is more of a side project by some serious D&D fans.
They simply got excited about the new D&D, came up with some cool projects, and then when the cold water of the original GSL was dumped on them, they put things on hold rather than spend effort getting crafty like Goodman. And now the colder water of a down economy and a damaged brand (d20) is likely to kill off their enthusiam even moreso.
Could Necromancer have taken the route Goodman did and "ride the wave"? Sure, but it's just not how they play the game. It's unfortunate for them and for the fans who love their products, but not really a misstep on their part.
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
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I have to admit, I'm chuckling to myself right now.
4E's BIGGEST cheerleader isnt/cant do proucts for it, because WOTC screwed around to much getting the GSL out and properly done?
The irony is astounding, especially in light of some of Orcus's words in the GSL forum, once the GSL was finally redone....what was his words again?
Quote:
That's all? 2 posts?
Come on, people!
This is a huge change! Very well done, Scott! I'm glad my faith in you was not misplaced. I knew you would come through. Thanks for fighting to get these changes. I really appreciate it.
Where are all the naysayers? I think its time for them to man up and come eat some crow.
I thought the same but was nice enough not to say it.
__________________ Remember kids whisky will not put out flaming mages ,but it will confuse the deathknight
"The Soul of D&D? It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
Thank you Gary Gygax, for everything.
"Rock on, Paizo, for you rock mightily".- dragonlordofpoondari
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