Blurring the lines between spells and rituals

[Zustiur]

Like many, I was pleased with the idea of Rituals, but not pleased with the implementation that 4E chose.

Separating spells from rituals in the manner that 4E chose requires a lot of hard decisions. "Should this ability be a spell or a ritual?" This comes from being a binary choice.

What would happen if we blurred the lines?
What if spells and rituals were all part of the same system?
What if rituals are merely a way of casing a spell that you haven't mastered yet?


I'd expect a significant reshuffling of spells across spell levels to achieve this, but I'm thinking along the lines of:
A 4th level Wizard can memorize/prepare 0th, 1st and 2nd level spells for near-immediate use during the day. He can also cast 3rd and maybe even 4th level spells, but doing so requires much more effort and time. He hasn't become that proficient, so he must 'follow the documentation' line by line and double check his work every step of the way. To cast a 3rd level spell takes him 30 minutes. To cast a 4th level spell takes him an hour or more. Additionally, he can cast 2nd level spells beyond his daily limit by taking 10 minutes to cast from the book. 3-5 minutes for a 1st level spell.

This removes 'rituals' as a concept, but keeps 'ritual casting' instead. Casting from your daily allotment allows you to demonstrate your mastery over magic. It shows that the wizard has learned to understand the workings behind the magic, without having to follow someone else's instructions by rote.

Other considerations:
* A wizard must possess his spell book to memorize a spell or to cast a spell via ritual casting.
* Spells cast via ritual need more components than those cast by memorization.
* I expect there to be some sort of sliding scale regarding ritual casting time. e.g. a 9th level wizard takes less than an hour to ritually cast a 4th level spell.
* If a cap is required, you could institute a number of minutes or hours per day that the wizard can spend casting rituals. Say after 6 hours he's mentally worn out and simply cannot cast any more.
* I personally would also go back to an AD&D memorization time, not the 3E '15' minutes of memorization.
* This style of Ritual casting could allow for rogues (and other classes) to pick up a spell book and attempt a spell. Probably with a failure chance. Without being forced to take a level of wizard. Consider the 'Ritual Casting' feat from 4E. A fighter takes that feat, and is able to ritually cast a 1st level spell in about half an hour. Or a 3rd level spell, but it takes him most of the day to cast?
* I'm also assuming that intelligence score still affects maximum spell level. Got less than 14 Int? Can't cast 4th level spells.

Naturally, the numbers presented above have been made up purely for the explanation. Any such system would need a great deal of playtesting to get right.

The obvious benefit of the system is that it enables low level wizards to participate magically in an adventure for more than just the first spell or two.
The obvious flaw is that it means wizards literally never run out of spells unless he also runs out of a) time or b) components (about as likely as running out of arrows).
I think that flaw is counterbalanced by the fact you could now significantly reduce his spell-slots per day total at high levels. At a guess, 15-20 is the most spells you could memorize at any class level.

Finally; There are some things which I feel should be rituals all of the time. Raise Dead comes to mind. Why not restrict the few, most world-affecting, spells to always be a ritual that takes significant time to cast, whilst keeping the majority of spells in the system presented above? I don't see any reason why Wish or Miracle shouldn't take a long time to cast at any level, whilst other spells that occupied the same spell level in previous games should remain as spells.
This neatly fits into my other idea that most of the 'big bad wizard/cleric' NPCs who want to cast their world-destroying spells can do so, but it would take them weeks or a month to cast, hence the PCs have a chance to stop them.

I really like this idea, but I'm not sure about the implementation. What are your thoughts?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What if rituals are merely a way of casing a spell that you haven't mastered yet?

I'd prefer rituals just be the long form, "better" versions of spells. And to go along with that, I think it would be cool if "cantrips" and "orisons" were the most basic form of a spell.

For instance: Knock as a spell might give a bonus to a target's F/R traps roll, whereas the ritual form would actually open locks magically,

And Sleep as a spell would render targets unconscious, but it's cantrip form would merely daze.

For added fun, all spells would improve with level. Perhaps at X level, the caster could cast a ritual as if it were a spell, and a spell as a cantrip...

But the increase would not be free: the cost would be eschewing learning other cantrips/spells/rituals. IOW, a caster could have a broad repertoire of magic, or he could have deep and powerful mastery of a few arcane secrets, but not both simultaneously.

 

[Zustiur]

That is another angle I've considered, but given DnD's history, I suspect it would be harder to 'sell'.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Excellent ideas.

I think the scope for magic and spells and rituals is wide and strange enough that you can incorporate so many disparate ideas into the one system. There is no reason that some spells couldn't act like you mention - capable of being cast as rituals before they can be cast as spells. Other spells can be as Dannyalcatraz mentions, cast as cantrips, spells or rituals with differing power levels, effects and demands. Perhaps having successfully learned a particularly difficult ritual, this opens up the capacity to learn a handful of related spells that would itherwise be impenetrably difficult to learn. Some may feel that this makes magic too complex or confusing, but I think that facet can be part of the appeal of playing a wizard.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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[pneumatik]

I'd prefer rituals just be the long form, "better" versions of spells. And to go along with that, I think it would be cool if "cantrips" and "orisons" were the most basic form of a spell.

For instance: Knock as a spell might give a bonus to a target's F/R traps roll, whereas the ritual form would actually open locks magically,

And Sleep as a spell would render targets unconscious, but it's cantrip form would merely daze.

For added fun, all spells would improve with level. Perhaps at X level, the caster could cast a ritual as if it were a spell, and a spell as a cantrip...

But the increase would not be free: the cost would be eschewing learning other cantrips/spells/rituals. IOW, a caster could have a broad repertoire of magic, or he could have deep and powerful mastery of a few arcane secrets, but not both simultaneously.

I see some mechanical risks. Out-of-combat spells would always be cast as rituals. In-combat spells would never be. Balancing utility against focused power is very difficult. The broadly-learned wizard might be fun to play, but he's unlikely to be as useful in combat as one focused on a few effective spells. The wizard focused on a few non-combat spells would almost be dead weight.

I actually like the way 3.5 handled this, namely the Warlock. Reserve feats were also a little harder to balance but still worked out okay. That's not to say your suggestion wouldn't be fun. I'd probably enjoy playing a wizard in it, I would just expect to find balance challenges.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

To give credit where it's due, the cantrip/spell setup I mentioned is at least in part an amalgam of how the Shadow Mage from ToM and Monte Cook's magic system in Arcana Unearthed/ Arcanw Evolved.

The issue of non-combat vs combat rituals IS a concern, but I can see combat spells being cast as rituals in certain cases, and noncombat spells being used depending upon the details of exactly how things work.

For instance:

1) ONLY rituals can be affected by metamagic. Certain effects that are Metamagically in 3.5Wd, like Energy Substitution- would be built into spells; "Energy Ball- choose one energy type- Fire, cold, electricity, sonic..." etc., like they are in many 3.5 Psionic powers.

2) ONLY Wizards learn the ritual forms of spells without feats- because they are the only "academic" arcanists- all other arcanists learn rituals via feats. (Something similar could be done with divine casters.)

3) see my Knock example.

(I'm sure pro game designers could make it work.)

 

[Zustiur]

I see some mechanical risks. Out-of-combat spells would always be cast as rituals. In-combat spells would never be. Balancing utility against focused power is very difficult.

That's what I'm afraid of with my system. It's part of why I stuck with just casting the same spell but taking a lot longer to do so.
Let's take some examples:

Knock
If the wizard memorizes knock, then yes he can bust through a lock in no time, thus putting the rogue to shame. However, if he needs to cast it as a ritual, it does the opposite - it makes the rogue useful because he will only take a few seconds rather than 5, 10, 30 or 60 minutes (depending on class level).
This is also presuming that there are no changes to knock

Fly
By memorizing this spell, the wizard has the option of getting himself or an ally out of a tight situation in combat. Need to get off the ground to stay safe from melee combatants? Fly is your answer. However, met with a cliff face and didn't memorize it? Kind of makes the obstacle pointless doesn't it? Hmm. Unless there's time pressure, cliffs, chasms, pits and other related hazards become pointless. The only solutions I can think of at the moment involve modifying the spell - shorter duration, total distance limit, or raising the spell's level. Not particularly satisfying.

As mentioned in my first post, I fully expect to push spells up or down the levels as a bit of re-balancing, but I don't want to have to push every utility spell upwards. There must be alternatives.

Perhaps ritual casting should use significantly more material, ala 4E's ritual components. Flying up that cliff face isn't so trivial if it takes 100 GP per character. This can be tied back into the world story too. Ritual components represent small items that the wizard can draw magic from, using up their 'force' to create the effects of the spell. When casting memorized spells he's using the 'force' within himself. Doing so is taxing, hence his daily limit on memorized spells, and the aforementioned daily limit on hours spent casting rituals.

What else am I missing?

 

[WarlockLord]

Shadow Mage from ToM

No. No. NO. NOOOO!

So, erm, why is the wizard using sleep out of combat as a ritual? That just returns us to the dumb 4e paradigm where Wizard's Escape is fluffed as surprising the guards, whereas you were chanting for 10 minutes while setting a stack of cash on fire.

 

[howandwhy99]

What if Rituals were scrolls?

You find an old spellbook in a treasure horde. You cast "Read Magic" and begin leafing through it.

At first there are spells you know or have already collected to try and learn.

Then there are new spells you do not have a copy of. Perhaps you've seen them cast, perhaps even at you, but these spells are as uncastable by you. (Spell unknown to the players may be even more alluring.)

Next, you find a quiet place to attempt to learn the spells in the book. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes you fail, but sometimes you learn that a particular spell is beyond your current ability to understand. It is a higher level spell than your current casting ability.

Could you try and make it work with only a partial understanding of how it works? Sure, you could try. And you even stand a reasonable chance of doing so as someone proficient in spellcasting, but doing so expends the copy of the spell in the book. The ink fades away, the paper flares to ash, or crumbles into dust.

The resource to cast a high level spell is expensive and really only accessible to highly trained spell casters. But it is still a possibility to try, if you choose to.