Blurring the lines between spells and rituals

[Herremann the Wise]

Also, since the base assumption of Ritual casting is that you are taking your time, there would be not "Taking 10" or 20. Instead, there'd be a rule penalizing the caster for trying to rush a ritual.

I think disadvantage would work nicely here. Perhaps with some rituals with special components (heart of troll?) you get advantage instead or perhaps with such things or with additional casting help you can rush the ritual without penalty. Again there are so many directions we can go with these.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Zustiur]

Wizards may be the default, with limited slots and ritual casting. Clerics may also have access to rituals, but cast spells spontaneously from their domain list. Sorcerer may have no access to rituals at all (they would have to take a feat), while bards use rituals and cantrips, but no spells.

This is similar to the idea I am working with. In my current version, there is complete separation between arcane and divine, therefore there are two types of rituals. Both are obtainable via feats. I hadn't thought about bards yet, good catch. Paladins would be similar, in your system, getting cantrips and rituals, in mine; getting ritual casting on top of their normal (limited) spell list.

As mentioned earlier, I have no intention of splitting spells into different power ratings, nor of having rituals be more powerful than prepared spells, but please continue - your ideas are fascinating and highly likely to spark further ideas of my own.

I'm not in favour of creating variance of power rating for two simple reasons:
1) I only have casual players, so the system needs to remain as simple as possible (not having 6 versions of fireball...)
2) If I go anywhere with this, I'll have to do all of the work myself. I am NOT going to re-write that many spells.
Those clauses are only relevant to me though. By all means continue

One of the ideas I've had but have not yet detailed is the idea that additional people should be able to contribute to a ritual. This way if you have a fighter who takes the 'Divine Ritual Casting' feat he can assist the cleric in some manner. Likewise, two clerics could work together. What that might achieve is as yet a complete unknown to me.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The cantrip/spell/ritual offers a lot of flexibility in giving each spellcasting class a different "feel". Wizards may be the default, with limited slots and ritual casting. Clerics may also have access to rituals, but cast spells spontaneously from their domain list. Sorcerer may have no access to rituals at all (they would have to take a feat), while bards use rituals and cantrips, but no spells.

We're in the same neighborhood.

Wizards, as academic casters, would have access to cantrips, spells & rituals, but would be limited in amounts cast per day in typical Vancian style. They would, however, have access to a wider variety of known magics, and could alter their arsenal with a bit of study time, and could always expand their list.

Clerics- also studious, but not in the same way as Wizards- would also have access to orisons, spells, & rituals, but their lists of would be rigidly defined by their faith. Learning magic outside of those lists would be done via a "Forbidden Knowledge" Feat.

Sorcerers and other "intuitive" or "innate" casters would know cantrips & spells, but soul have to burn feats to learn any rituals. Their cantrip/orison use might even be unlimited at-wills.

Bards- you nailed.

Lesser casters whose powers come from some kind of pact with extraplanar beings- Warlocks, Paladins, etc.- would have a rigidly defined lists of cantrips/orisons and spells. Their access to rituals would be class-dependent. Warlocks might start off with one or two. Paladins* might not know any to start, and would be restricted on what kinds they could learn- healing rituals OK, undead creation, probably not.

In cantrips, I'd avoid giving bonuses, and even rolls. They should be as simple to use as possible.
Continuing the Knock example, I'd make the cantrip version automatically open locks to a fixed difficulty (eg. what a equal-level, average-dexterity rogue gets by taking 10) and fail against harder ones. This way, a wizard is never stopped by a poor lock, but a rogue is a little better in every case, and is able to defeat high quality locks that the cantrip can't even touch.

I still think the cantrip version of Knock should be limited to giving a bonus to someone with skill, but I could see a solid argument for it working your way.








* or, if the game has "Holy Warriors" instead of Paladins, their list would be definede by their faith- resembling a watered-down version of what their clerics have.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This post got me thinking:

Another solution I like is that each successive cast is weaker or harder to do until a reset period passes. (Probably a long rest) This provides a motive for not nuking now because you might really need it later.

I can see this, not as a general rule for all classes, but as mechanics for different spellcasting classes.

1) a class with a limited set of powers, all at-will, but weakening with each use until it reaches a minimal- cantrip/orison- level. Reset occurs at the end of the day.

2) a class with a somewhat limited set of powers, all at-will, but the caster has to make an ever increasing DC roll to use a power each time. Once a DC roll is failed, he is fatigued and cannot cast again until he makes a declining DC roll (initially at the level he missed). The roll declines at the same rate as it accrued. If it helps, think of it like the overheating mechnics for games like the computer version of MechWarrior.

3) a class with a very limited set of powers, all at-will, but the caster has to make an ever increasing DC roll for that power to use it each time. Once a DC roll is failed, he is fatigued and cannot use that power again until he makes a declining DC roll (initially at the level he missed). The roll declines at the same rate as it accrued.

4) a Vancian caster with a broad set of powers who can use each form of his powers 1/day.