4e One-trick ponies: Why is it the DM's fault about combat grind?


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Rechan

Adventurer
Probably because they have four strikers.

You get more total damage out of ongoing effects, area effects, or boosts to the entire party.
I think concentrated fire is much more efficient than an area affect. And, depending on their level, access to ongoing effects aren't that prevalent.

Not to mention I haven't seen a lot of powers that boost ally damage output.
 

Nymrohd

First Post
In a group with four strikers I'd use elites and solos more often. When you are striker heavy the game is more satisfying when the monsters are near the PC level (avoid high level monsters, one leader cannot boost everyone's hit alone, and people will miss left and right), but preferably have loads of hit points (so the strikers get a chance to focus fire and don't simply dispatch everything in one, 2 rounds).
Your group is evenly split (ranger, lock, lazer cleric in the back, rest are in melee) so make sure the terrain and the mobs can properly antagonize them. A lurker that can attack from behind in a cramped space or some skirmishers who can avoid your melee, alongside a soldier (or better an elite soldier) to tie those down sounds a good idea to start with.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
Your group is evenly split (ranger, lock, lazer cleric in the back, rest are in melee) so make sure the terrain and the mobs can properly antagonize them. A lurker that can attack from behind in a cramped space or some skirmishers who can avoid your melee, alongside a soldier (or better an elite soldier) to tie those down sounds a good idea to start with.
Lurker especially on that damn ranger. Damn bow rangers are hard to kill. Slippery bastards. Grr grr grr.

Barbarians like to charge. I think a variety of terrain, possibly things for enemies to run across/jump behind or anything to break up the occasional charge is useful.
 


Cadfan

First Post
I think concentrated fire is much more efficient than an area affect. And, depending on their level, access to ongoing effects aren't that prevalent.

Not to mention I haven't seen a lot of powers that boost ally damage output.
1. Concentrated fire IS more efficient than area effects as a general rule, but area effects do more damage total, and eventually you have to get through all of the enemy's hit points. Opening the battle with a big explosion helps a lot, and often can involve one character doing as much damage in one round as the rest of the whole party is likely to do that round put together.

2. Its true that most good ongoing effects don't occur until at least the middle of the heroic tier.

3. As far as boosting ally damage output, there are a lot of ways to do it. Boosting accuracy will do the same thing as boosting damage, functionally speaking, and you can do that with a daze, stun, by sliding an ally into a flanking position, or any number of other effects, many of which are usable by strikers, but most of which are more easily found in controller or leader powers. Ongoing effects can do similar things, because an attack that pushes or pulls can receive a functional damage boost if you push someone into a damaging cloud or wall.

In general, striker daily powers tend to be "hit one guy really big this round" type effects. They're great for when you need to put one particular enemy on the floor right now. But if your overall goal is a fast combat, doing high single target damage isn't always the best solution. You get further towards killing everything if you do 15 points of damage to five targets than 30 points of damage to one. Same if you deal 10 damage per round to two or three targets over 4 rounds versus if you deal 30 damage to one once.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
3. As far as boosting ally damage output, there are a lot of ways to do it. Boosting accuracy will do the same thing as boosting damage, functionally speaking
I don't really agree with this statement. You'd have a point if the enemy is hard to hit, but if they have a relatively low AC and more HP, just being able to hit them on a 6 vs. an 8 really isn't going to increase the amount of damage you're doing.

Also the issue of area affects is really a hairy one, namely because area affects aren't always viable. Especially if you have multiple melee allies, you can't keep dropping area affects without the increased risk of hitting them.

But this really is getting off topic.
 

Shroomy

Adventurer
Also the issue of area affects is really a hairy one, namely because area affects aren't always viable. Especially if you have multiple melee allies, you can't keep dropping area affects without the increased risk of hitting them.

This is why I love my artificer. Its great being able to drop AoE attack on top of my party's fighter, especially now that he's got Come and Get It.
 

Dausuul

Legend
I don't really agree with this statement. You'd have a point if the enemy is hard to hit, but if they have a relatively low AC and more HP, just being able to hit them on a 6 vs. an 8 really isn't going to increase the amount of damage you're doing.

Yes, it will. On average, it will increase your damage output by ~15%. At 1st level, for a typical melee warrior (Str 18) wielding a bastard sword, that's better than Weapon Focus.

People do roll numbers less than 8 on occasion. Thirty-five percent of the time, in fact.
 
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Rechan

Adventurer
People do roll numbers less than 8 on occasion. Thirty-five percent of the time, in fact.
On occasion is the point.

It increases hit, but it does not increase damage. Because just like people can roll an 8, they can also roll a 1 on their damage. Not to mention that if the person rolled above the target number, then the +2 wasn't necessary, or was wasted when it could have been useful at a different time.

I simply do not accept the statistical average increase = more damage output. Period.

It also doesn't help grind, which is the point. The increase in chance to hit still is depending on another character attacking with something they would've done on their turn anyway, and if that isn't exciting, then it's still grinding.
 
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