Don't hate the playa, hate the game

Do you differentiate between the DM and the NPCs/monsters/world/plots/etc.?

Do you differentiate between the Player and the player character?


Do you get mad at the DM when he breaks your favorite magic sword? Or do you get mad at the fire giant that sundered your character's favorite magic sword?

Do you get mad at the DM when he uses a geas on you to make you go on an adventure? Or do you get mad at the high priest who used a geas on your character to make him go on the adventure?

Do you get mad at the DM when he ambushes you in the night when you aren't prepared? Or do you get mad at the assassin's guild who jumped your character in the night when he/she wasn't prepared?

Do you get mad at the Player when he steals the gems from the treasure chest before you could get to it? Or do you get mad at the PC who stole the gems before your character could get to it?


It seems that there are many Players and DMs who don't differentiate between a Player/DM and characters. I've read in some threads where a Player states, "If the DM did that to me, I'd quit."

In my group, there was once a Real World discussion about how a man should *never* call a woman a "bitch". Then one time an evil female necromancer NPC called the female fighter PC that word. "Kill that bitch!" was the statement.

Later, one of the Players mentioned "they wanted to kill the 'bitch'," and pointed a thumb at the female Player of the fighter PC. I playfully warned, "Watch it. You know we talked about that word."

"You called her that last game session."

"No, the evil necromancer called Brianna [the PC] that."

So, is the DM/NPC and Player/PC separation a myth? Or do you and your group accept the difference?

Quasqueton

Still reeling from the railroading backlash?

Surprised by it.

Quasqueton

Yeah, me too. I felt sorry for you a bit there...well not a lot. I guess I was surprised as well.

For a group that so strongly touts roleplaying, that metagaming tantrum was quite a tangent.

I mean, I don`t like obvious plotlines and boring adventures...but come on...show some respect.

If it is being done by a heavy-handed DM who doesn't know how to write a decent plot and fudges everything in sight, then yes, it is the DM's fault.

If it's being done by a fair DM, however, or the storyline is at least remotely interesting, then it's fine...

Tyler Do'Urden said:

If it is being done by a heavy-handed DM who doesn't know how to write a decent plot and fudges everything in sight, then yes, it is the DM's fault.

If it's being done by a fair DM, however, or the storyline is at least remotely interesting, then it's fine...

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I tend to agree. I mean, sometimes the dice just don't do what we want them to, and random chance rears its ugly head.

A player is not the character, the DM is not the NPC.

I have seen some players who have difficulty with that, but most seem to have no problems with it.

If the DM is being fair and impartial, no problem. If the DM is obviously out to get one of the players? That is a separate, and thanks the gods rarer, situation. I have seen it, but only once or twice. So, if the DM was fair and didn't just have Bob, Lord of Evil grab and break the PCs sword without rolling then not a big deal. Given that it is a fire giant sundering the weapon... odds are good that is an ex-sword.

More commonly I have seen players going after each other over what their characters have done, still rare, but I have seen it. Paranoia seemed all about that!

But if the DM threw a railroad plot at me, then went trying to find a way to force me to follow it, then out the door.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Tried to explain more clearly.

I know that I have, in the past, had a lot of trouble with the whole in game/out of game thing. Someone would do something or say something in game that I would find offensive... and days later, I would find myself miffed with the person who did it/said it... it really comes down to the fact that I took the game WAY TOO seriously.

It wasn't until somewhat recently, when I was crying to my husband (the DM) about something someone did in game, that I finally got over this... really took him yelling, "Liz! It's only a game!" for me to develop a clear separation between my relationships with the people I play with in game and out of game.


I've also noticed in the past that women are the ones that tend to get miffed in situations like this... but - I think that women tend to be more emotional about stuff, in general.

I had words with 2 of my players a month ago about this same topic. They are new to my table & we've realized our gaming styles are different. They got upset with me for ingame things and I got upset with them for taking it out of game. Same stuff you mentioned.

This is the first time I've ever dealt with players thinking I'm being hard on them as a DM because I'm mad that they killed some NPC's of mine. I was never mad, they are SUPPOSED to kill my npc's or do whatever they want. I might be bummed out if I built a great NPC and they took him out before I expected, but why would I care enough that I'd punish them or be harder on them later on in game? After our talk, they let me know that their previous DM did that type of stuff, so that's what they expect is going on from me. It was bad timing too when I realized this. They killed an NPC of mine that I didn't expect them to kill, then I roleplayed another NPC yelling at them for killing the other NPC. During my performance with the NPC, I actually called a PC names & insulted her. The player took it personal, thinking I was mad because they killed my NPC. We talked about it a few days later when I realized that was the case.

They also play in the player vs DM style instead of PC vs NPC style. I'm not used to that either. I told them I'd just play chess instead of D&D if that's how I wanted to play. I warned them that they won't enjoy my game if they play vs the DM because it'll seem cheesy, like I'm not good tactically...when really it's the NPC that wasn't good tactically.

This game is all about trust. And most DM's seem to be arrogant morons that let being in charge go to their heads. I'm just trying to get my new players to trust me, because I put my trust in them thinking they'll be fair with me too.

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:

II've also noticed in the past that women are the ones that tend to get miffed in situations like this... but - I think that women tend to be more emotional about stuff, in general.

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While reading your post, I was thinking that SAME thing. I have 3 women in my game, and all 3 of them are the ones that take my in-game DM'ing actions out of game. They also seem to need the most pampering. They do most of the complaining it seems. Only one male player acts like that on occasion. But I think he's realized it and is trying to change.