Comfort withcross gender characters based on your gender

Comfort with cross gender characters based on your gender

  • I am male and am uncomfortable with cross gender characters

    Votes: 46 11.8%
  • I am male and am indifferent to cross gender characters

    Votes: 108 27.8%
  • I am male and am comfortable with cross gender characters

    Votes: 214 55.0%
  • I am female and am uncomfortable with cross gender characters

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • I am female and am indifferent to cross gender characters

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • I am female and am comfortable with cross gender characters

    Votes: 17 4.4%

Status
Not open for further replies.

aramis erak

Legend
Regarding the cultural baggage: By this I mean I don't import the colonial history of black-skinned people into my worlds. There might be colonialism, or aspects thereof, but in a wholly different context. Same thing with prejudices and biases. Some Minotaur tribes might not get along with their Hobgoblin neighbors because they think of them as stupid barbarians.

Depending upon the ruleset, those hobgoblins may, as physiology, be statistically significantly less intelligent than the minotaurs and/or humans. After all, some game worlds do assign penalties to Goblinoid intellect... and bonuses to minotaurs.

All the justifications used erroneously (due to conflation of education with intelligence in the 16th to 20th centuries) for colonization and/or enslavement may be factually supported by the game mechanics preventing intellect from the same range of values.

In a way, I kind of miss the days when only Elves were Int 19, and only dwarves hit con 20... but I sure don't miss the clunky mechanics not Gygaxian spew.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

evileeyore

Mrrrph
Also as if I hadn't referenced the J.S. Mills essay "On Liberty" several times, on EN World, in the last month or two.
Why would I know this? I've interacted with you in two threads now.

Also, half of what I say isn't directed at a singular poster, but often to a larger audience. You know, everyone else here.

"illegal" and "socially unacceptable" are both significant and they are NOT the same thing...
This is true.

...nor is it merely a difference of degree.
This is false.

While there is a difference between "censored by the government" and "censored by society", either way the end is the same, your voice is not heard.

But before we go much further into the details, remember that this is a multi-national discussion, run from Canada, and the rulings of courts in the USA are not everyone's context.
Canada has nothing to do with this board aside from the statistically insignificant number* of posters.

Morrus lives in the UK and the board is hosted in Coral Gables, Florida USA.


And that last bit is important. If the board were run in the UK I wouldn't be in here talking about anything.


* For comedies sake, 1 in 12 is insignificant. ;)

(A) The storyline of Witcher series is not, in its own words, set in a Poland or Poland-analogue...
Yes, actually it is. The entirety of the story takes place in 'mythic Poland analogue *'.


*AFAIKT. There may be dlc or sidequests or stories or what not. But as far as I've uncovered in my quick research, it's all set in the "Northern Kingdoms", aka mythic Poland analogue.

...which is somehow isolated from the rest of humanity.
No one had ever made that claim.

Regardless of the existence of the middle-eastern looking Zerrikanians, they have no place in the story*, which is centered around Geralt and his travels and travails.


* Aside from one Zerrikanian sorcerer in the first game (so far).

I guess Zerrikania is "everywhere south or southeast of Poland
That would probably actually be Nilfgaard.

...and non-Poles are all the same to me." If a Turk or Roma wandered into historical Poland, would they become a Zerrikanian in The Witcher? Is it true that the only good Zerrikanian is a dead Zerrikanian? (shrug)
That's a lot of reaching. An awful lot.

(B) Whether it's ethical for Poles to decide "only Poles count as characters in the story of our nation", is debatable.
How very monolithic of you. As though a few Poles making a decision on a how they want to write a story is the entirety of all Poles.

Also, it is completely ethical for a few individuals to write that way.

It echoes the direct parallel of Germany deciding that only Aryan Germans count as characters in the story of their nation...
Not even close.

It is currently illegal, in Poland, to publicly name the Poles who actively participated in that process.
That's actually false. It's illegal to call Poland, the Polish people as a whole, and the Polish state "complicit in the holocaust".

It is perfectly legal tp accuse individual Poles of complicity with the Nazis, and the body that created the law and the PM who signed the law, have stated it's purpose quite loudly.

So, to answer your question exactly as asked: no, I do NOT realize that it's okay to treat 1% or .1% or .01% as zero, in a nation where *actual conversion to zero* is a few generations in the past...
Well, I've now informed you that it's okay.

I keep raising, and you keep ignoring, the distinction between "people expressing their opinions in editorials, reviews, or social media posts" versus "harassment by methods such as death threats, rape threats, hacking the target's accounts or websites, and/or doxxing the target's personal information."
Because all of that happebed to the developers at CDPR (and Warhorse Studios).

Do you see symmetry between how the harshest people on the Left treat CD Projekt...
You mean the the death threats, doxxing, etc....

...versus how the harshest people on the Right[1] treat targets such as Leslie Jones, Felicia Day, or more recently, Kelly Marie Tran[2]?
1 - Eh. Not everyone throwing hate at Tran (and the others) is Right. I'm sure there are plenty of lefties throwing as much hate at her (and the others) for no good reason (because that's how people operate). It's not her fault the character stank and is one of the worst things in the movie. She did a good job.

2 - Did CDPR (or Warhorse Studios) receive the vast outpouring of love from the journos after they were hounded, lied about, received death threats, doxxs, harassment, etc?

Of source not, since half the hounding and lies were by those very same journos.


Okay, I imagined that. I would respond: the movie "Black Panther" DIRECTLY ADDRESSES THAT AS A MORAL QUESTION. Wakandans turn away any Hispanics who show up on the border, and prevent them from passing through the non-rural parts of Wakanda, such as the capital city.
Way to miss the point.

The point is (taking Black Panther as our example), that the movie is about the trials and tribulations of a black hero, in a completely* black ethno-state, and what he deals with mostly in that state.

That there are no Hispanics is perfectly okay and anyone crying about it is 'asleep'.

Exactly the point I'm making for the Witcher (and KCD). People crying about the lack of their favored skin tone are missing the point of the setting and the story.


* Yes, I'm ignoring the single white guy who lives there and the other white guy brought in by the black hero. Less than 0.01% is beyond statistically insignificant. Beyond that, there were no Hispanics, so "Where's the Latinos at?" guy is still on point.

Where in Andrzej Sapkowski's stories does Geralt discuss the existence and status of non-Polish humans, in such direct terms, and as a moral issue?
Don't know, never read them. Don't care either as it isn't something I find to be a worrying absence.

There's no gorram way a penny's gonna go from my pocket, to the publisher of a game with an ethno-nationalist storyline; "never forget, never again" runs deep in my values; but that's my personal choice.
But you watched Black Panther (an ethno-nationalist storyline) didn't you? Do you not see the hypocrisy?

So when you say that there's "a campaign of hate from the CNTRL Left", to what extent does that campaign include death threats, rape threats, hacking the target's accounts or websites, and/or doxxing anyone's personal information?
All of it.




Nitpick: unless Southampton somehow recently underwent a very significant relocation, this is actually run from the UK.
By way of Coral Gables. ;)


And I'll echo a "Thanks darjr!" Nice work there.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Canada has nothing to do with this board aside from the statistically insignificant number* of posters.
I am not insignificant, nor do I have any intention of becoming so, thank you very much. :)

Morrus lives in the UK and the board is hosted in Coral Gables, Florida USA.

And that last bit is important. If the board were run in the UK I wouldn't be in here talking about anything.
Which leads me to ask, what difference does it make whether the board's servers are in the US, the UK, Canada, or <insert some other random country here>. The board's owner is in the UK, which AFAIC makes this a UK-based board.

1 - Eh. Not everyone throwing hate at Tran (and the others) is Right. I'm sure there are plenty of lefties throwing as much hate at her (and the others) for no good reason (because that's how people operate). It's not her fault the character stank and is one of the worst things in the movie. She did a good job.
This is something I absolutely do not understand, why she's getting such abuse. Both she and her character were, in my view, excellent in the movie.

But you watched Black Panther (an ethno-nationalist storyline) didn't you? Do you not see the hypocrisy?
I watched Black Panther and though it was a fine bit of entertainment. In so doing I also cast aside any real-world politics and-or other considerations in favour of placing the story in the Marvel-world.

And I'll echo a "Thanks darjr!" Nice work there.
Ditto from here! :)

Lanefan
 

Lylandra

Adventurer
Depending upon the ruleset, those hobgoblins may, as physiology, be statistically significantly less intelligent than the minotaurs and/or humans. After all, some game worlds do assign penalties to Goblinoid intellect... and bonuses to minotaurs.

All the justifications used erroneously (due to conflation of education with intelligence in the 16th to 20th centuries) for colonization and/or enslavement may be factually supported by the game mechanics preventing intellect from the same range of values.

In a way, I kind of miss the days when only Elves were Int 19, and only dwarves hit con 20... but I sure don't miss the clunky mechanics not Gygaxian spew.

Err... I'm really not sure whether we'd want to go down that pit. Really.
 

Hussar

Legend
EvilEyore said:
The point is (taking Black Panther as our example), that the movie is about the trials and tribulations of a black hero, in a completely* black ethno-state, and what he deals with mostly in that state.

That there are no Hispanics is perfectly okay and anyone crying about it is 'asleep'.

Exactly the point I'm making for the Witcher (and KCD). People crying about the lack of their favored skin tone are missing the point of the setting and the story.

Wow. Seriously? "This one movie with an all black cast doesn't have other ethnicities in it, so, why should any other work attempt to bring in other ethnicities"? That's the argument you want to make? Talk about missing the point. If I want to find a fantasy work with an all white cast, I can find thousands, literally thousands. The existence of a tiny, tiny number of works that feature a single minority cast does not somehow excuse that.

IOW, there's a reasonable historical argument that you can make to add in various ethnicities into a work. And there's a pretty darn strong moral one as well. Playing the, "Well, if they don't do it, then I don't have to" card is incredibly tone deaf.
 

pemerton

Legend
Black Panther doesn't have an all-Black cast. It has a pretty well-known white British actor in a pretty major role. Whether that's a good or bad thing is probably something on which opinions differ.

I'm also pretty surprised to find defence of the Polish "anti-defamation" law in this thread. I don't think that current trends in Polish politics and government are very helpful in thinking about how to handle issues of sex and gender in RPGing.
 

evileeyore

Mrrrph
Which leads me to ask, what difference does it make whether the board's servers are in the US, the UK, Canada, or <insert some other random country here>. The board's owner is in the UK, which AFAIC makes this a UK-based board.
Note: I'm not conversant with how cross-jurisdictional laws work... but anyway, my take:

If the boards were locate in the UK, the UK laws might take precedent on posts posted here... in which case I wouldn't feel safe posting here. The UK has taken a dark turn away from freedom of speech.

This is something I absolutely do not understand, why she's getting such abuse.
I agree. Or rather... I understand why she's getting harassed, but I think it's terrible and the harassers are stupid and wrong.

Both she and her character were, in my view, excellent in the movie.
Aaaand here we disagree. She did a great job acting the role... but Rose is just a terrible character.

I watched Black Panther and though it was a fine bit of entertainment. In so doing I also cast aside any real-world politics and-or other considerations in favour of placing the story in the Marvel-world.
Mmmm... agreed. I was still informed by Real WorldTM politics and thus how they chose to portray real world concerns, but thought they did a great job of it.




Wow. Seriously? "This one movie with an all black cast doesn't have other ethnicities in it, so, why should any other work attempt to bring in other ethnicities"?
That's not what I said at all, but you shine on you crazy diamond.

The existence of a tiny, tiny number of works that feature a single minority cast does not somehow excuse that.
Tiny number? Okay now, I was taken to task over my "less 0.01% is equal to zero", so I'm fine taking you to task here.

I suppose you think that Africa doesn't make movies? That the only movies that exist are made by the US? Are you kidding me?

IOW, there's a reasonable historical argument that you can make to add in various ethnicities into a work.
Sure... but if it doesn't add anything of significance while costing resources, then I do not agree that it is 'necessary'.

Especially int he case where you'd literally be adding one or two into crowds of hundreds.

And there's a pretty darn strong moral one as well.
No there isn't.

Or rather, there is no moral argument to adding blacks to either The Witcher or KCD. To Primeval Thule on the other hand...
 

Sadras

Legend
When was the last time we saw some Blacks, Hispanic and Asian Nazi's in a WW2 PC game? ....crickets....

EDIT: As magnificent as Idris Elba is, he does not have to be included in every period-styled/influenced game or movie.
 
Last edited:

Bagpuss

Legend
Here are the top 10 geo for an unspecified time frame.
View attachment 98212

I compared these with actual population of the countries.

USA 0.043%
Canada 0.054%
UK 0.028%
Australia 0.04%
New Zealand 0.038%

The percentages are small and significantly smaller for non English speaking ones, as you would expect.

For example Brazil is 0.003%

Wonder why the UK is so much smaller? From my personal accadotal experience, the UK doesn't seem to be as focused on D&D as the USA appears to be. Many RPG Cons I've seen in the UK have no D&D run at all for example, is that the same in the US?
 

Lylandra

Adventurer
When was the last time we saw some Blacks, Hispanic and Asian Nazi's in a WW2 PC game? ....crickets....
You do realize that there are lots and lots of reasons for that? Also, there are enough games, movies etc. out there that deal with all the major axis powers (including the Japanese), even if they tend to exclude brief members (Romania, Iraq...)

On a second thought, we did get Nazi aliens in Star Trek... twice!
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top