Eberron: Forging Fury [Full and Live]

d'Anconia · Jul 13, 2005

Before I finish up the Paladin, do you have any thoughts on how he would be compatable with the Necromancer? I'd still like to play a disgruntled Paladin, but like I've said, I don't want it to be a party conflict issue. In fact, can a Paladin even associate with an evil character according to his code?

Thanks!
d'Anconia

ShaggySpellsword · Jul 13, 2005

Here is the list taken from all the Completes, PHB, all Eberron Books, and Minis Handbook. These are Wiz/Sor spells with no Somatic Components. I didn't include any other Arcane class in this list.

Code:

0-	Flare
	Light
1-	Benign Transposition
	Slide
	Feather Fall
	Hold Portal
	True Strike
	Ventriloquism
	Magecraft
	Critical Strike
	Expeditious Retreat, Swift
	Golem Strike
	Guided Shot
	Insightful Feint
	Master’s Touch
        Low-light vision
2-	Baleful Transposition
	Blades of Fire
	Greater Slide
	Blindness/Deafness
	Blur
	Darkness
	Knock
	Blade Weave
	Daggerspell Stance
	Fly, swift
        Sonic Weapon
        Insidious Insight
3-	Displacement
	Suggestion
	Tongues
4-	Dimension Door
	Lesser Geas
	Shout
	Entangling Staff
5-	Contact Other Plane
	Teleport
	Unfettered Heroism
6-	Geas/Quest
	Brilliant Blade
7-	Phase Door
	Power Word Blind
	Teleport Object
	Teleport, Greater
8-	Charm Monster, Mass
	Otto’s Irresistible Dance
	Power Word Stun
	Maddening Scream
9-	Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
        Power Word Kill
        Prismatic Sphere
        Teleportation Circle
        Time Stop
        Wail of the Banshee
        Wish

Ringmereth · Jul 13, 2005

d'Anconia said:
Before I finish up the Paladin, do you have any thoughts on how he would be compatable with the Necromancer? I'd still like to play a disgruntled Paladin, but like I've said, I don't want it to be a party conflict issue. In fact, can a Paladin even associate with an evil character according to his code?

Thanks!
d'Anconia

Nope. Under 'Associates' in the Paladin description, "a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an associate with someone who consistantly offends her moral code." With Detect Evil at will, it's hard to get around that.

ShaggySpellsword · Jul 13, 2005

That said, I've seen very successful Non-evil necromancers out there. So Paladin/Necromancers together in a group can work okay I think.

d'Anconia · Jul 13, 2005

ShaggySpellsword said:
That said, I've seen very successful Non-evil necromancers out there. So Paladin/Necromancers together in a group can work okay I think.

Yeah, I'm not worried about the Necro part too much, just the Evil. I'm probably going to go with a Warlock/Rogue type character. Maybe 1st level Rogue multiclassing into Warlock at the next level, or possibly the other way around.

Bront · Jul 13, 2005

Kerrz said:
Bront: You use the term "Godforged" alot, but it seems to be in the wrong context. The Godforged are a group of warforged who are following a Construct Diety, and are planning to build him an avatar to occupy on the world of Eberron. (RoE pg19)

Godforged does not apply to every warforged who has found the way of any diety. They are a specific sect following a specific diety, and I cannot fathom how this makes them inherently more free, nor how it fits into your character.

Maybe you meant something else. Maybe I'm just confused. Just take a look over it, or atleast explain what you were trying to say when you kept relating your character to godforged.

You know, I don't know how I took that term out of context (possibly from other games where other people have taken it out of context too). I had taken the term in the context that those non-warforged were considered the godforged. I'll correct it.

Oh, and on the evil part, there's some comments on how Paladins are a bit more lenient about it in Eberron, because alignment is a bit more mutable here, but tend to not assosiate continualy with those of an evil alignment, particularly if they do evil acts.

Given we have at least 2 good members of the party beyond the potential Paladin, there could be a problem anyway, but it depends on how things play out.

Kerrz · Jul 13, 2005

Bront: I think I saw somewhere that regular folks are called "Fleshforged". I'm going to re-read the relevant parts of Races of Eberron and see if I can find where it's used.

The Necro/Pally thing: I see no reason at all in the Necromancer's bio why he should be evil. Will he put others to great trouble in order to improve his own station even the tiniest bit? Is he completely irreconcilable to concepts of decency and morality?

Looking over Agarndas' bio reads more objectively than anything. Such objectivity is something I'd see from a True Neutral character rather than a Lawful Evil. He appears to have little respect for human laws - following around criminals and inspecting bodies. But, he does not kill anything himself, so how can he be considered evil? He is just an observer and a learner, not the standard LE plotter/planner/mastermind.

So, the Paladin is ok, because the Necromancer is not really evil. (Unless you WANT to be evil Ringmereth... then you'll have to change your bio, because that character is NOT evil as it stands.)

Come to think of it, I'm going to check all of your alignments. This may even become a campaign theme and I'll watch your actions carefully to see if you stick by your chosen alignment.

Edit: Oh, and make sure your character has a well-planned bio, which includes a section explaining why your character responded to the summons and why your character STAYED with the group.

Timeboxer · Jul 13, 2005

Kerrz said:
Come to think of it, I'm going to check all of your alignments. This may even become a campaign theme and I'll watch your actions carefully to see if you stick by your chosen alignment.

I seem to remember that Eberron has the "even good people can do evil things in the name of good, and vice versa" theme, so perhaps intent is what you're more interested in -- or is it different in this campaign?

Fixed my character sheet, by the way; I figure I'll just do Silver Tracery with a warforged fighter substitution level at second level or something.

Kerrz · Jul 13, 2005

Yeah, one of the many things that Eberron focuses on is moral ambiguity. Kaius III is Lawful Evil, but is one of the largest promoters of peace. Things like that.

But what I meant is more that if you repeatedly slip from your established alignment, then your alignment will change. If such a thing happens, it may not affect anything, after all the change in alignment would be done to reflect the way you're already acting, not like when an alignment is forced on you. Or it might be very traumatic. Someone realizing they're not quite as evil as they thought they were... or maybe someone finding out they're not as good as they thought they were. We'll see what moral issues I come up with.

Ringmereth · Jul 14, 2005

Kerrz said:
Bront: I think I saw somewhere that regular folks are called "Fleshforged". I'm going to re-read the relevant parts of Races of Eberron and see if I can find where it's used.

The Necro/Pally thing: I see no reason at all in the Necromancer's bio why he should be evil. Will he put others to great trouble in order to improve his own station even the tiniest bit? Is he completely irreconcilable to concepts of decency and morality?

Looking over Agarndas' bio reads more objectively than anything. Such objectivity is something I'd see from a True Neutral character rather than a Lawful Evil. He appears to have little respect for human laws - following around criminals and inspecting bodies. But, he does not kill anything himself, so how can he be considered evil? He is just an observer and a learner, not the standard LE plotter/planner/mastermind.

So, the Paladin is ok, because the Necromancer is not really evil. (Unless you WANT to be evil Ringmereth... then you'll have to change your bio, because that character is NOT evil as it stands.)

Come to think of it, I'm going to check all of your alignments. This may even become a campaign theme and I'll watch your actions carefully to see if you stick by your chosen alignment.

Edit: Oh, and make sure your character has a well-planned bio, which includes a section explaining why your character responded to the summons and why your character STAYED with the group.

A couple things: first, the nature of his magic-focusing in necromancy, and the nasty, distasteful, doing unnatural things to dead people aspects thereof-pushes him significantly towards evil. While he's not doing it yet, I don't doubt that he'll make himself an undead entourage if we get to that level-though not because he enjoys inflicting pain on people, but because death, as a huge part of humanness, is interesting, and dead soldiers are useful and cheap.

Also, while he's primarily, like you said, an observer and learner, he has some distain for humanity as a whole, mostly because of their prejudice against 'forged of their own making.

If you read that stuff as True Neutral, then that's what he is. In the traditional view of D&D alignments, Necromancy and such are evil, even if used for good causes-and this Warforged isn't using it for any cause beyond advancing his own knowledge.

Eberron: Forging Fury [Full and Live]

d'Anconia

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ShaggySpellsword

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Ringmereth

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ShaggySpellsword

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d'Anconia

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Bront

The man with the probe

Kerrz

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Timeboxer

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Kerrz

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Ringmereth

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