Item Saving Throws

Olaf the Stout · Jun 5, 2006

Slightly related to my Ooze Paraelementals thread. I have a question about saving throws for items.

Medium Ooze Paraelementals deal 40 points of acid damage per round to metal or wooden objects. Armour & clothing are useless unless they make a DC 13 Reflex save. Metal or wooden weapons that successfully hit Ooze Paraelementals dissolve immediately unless they make a DC 13 Reflex save.

Just so I am getting this right can someone please explain how item saving throws work in this case. They way I did it was that the item got a saving throw as if the PC wearing/wielding them was attacked. Is this correct? Do magic items get some sort of bonus?

One of my players lost a +1 dagger to the Ooze Paraelementals so I really want to make sure that I am getting it right. I would hate for a player to lose a magic weapon because I am reading the rules incorrectly. (As a side note, I let him have a second save after he failed the first one but he rolled a 2!)

Thanks in advance,

Olaf the Stout

shilsen · Jun 5, 2006

Olaf the Stout said:
Just so I am getting this right can someone please explain how item saving throws work in this case. They way I did it was that the item got a saving throw as if the PC wearing/wielding them was attacked. Is this correct?

That's correct for attended items, as it seems was the case here. Unattended mundane items normally don't get a save.

Do magic items get some sort of bonus?

Magic items, unlike mundane items, normally get a saving throw even when unattended. Their saves are 2 + half caster level (round down). If the magic item is attended, then it uses the higher of its own save or the owner's.

Olaf the Stout · Jun 5, 2006

shilsen said:
That's correct for attended items, as it seems was the case here. Unattended mundane items normally don't get a save.

Magic items, unlike mundane items, normally get a saving throw even when unattended. Their saves are 2 + half caster level (round down). If the magic item is attended, then it uses the higher of its own save or the owner's.

Thanks Shilsen. What page of the DMG/PHB is item saving throws located? I couldn't seem to find it when I had a quick look for it before.

And do magic items get any extra hit points/hardness due to the fact that they are magical?

Does anyone know what happens to a magic weapon that has been damaged by acid like this? Does it become a +1 hilt? :lol:

Is there some way of repairing the item? Is the item effectively worthless now?

Olaf the Stout

frankthedm · Jun 5, 2006

Olaf the Stout said:
And do magic items get any extra hit points/hardness due to the fact that they are magical?

Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons
Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points.

The combat abilities that dissolve armor and cloths ignore all hardness and HP.

The following has been errated out of the 3.5 DMG, it was accidently left in the book from 3.0.
The attacker cannot damage a magic weapon or shield that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck. Each +1 of enhancement bonus also adds 1 to the weapon's or shield's hardness and hit points. If a combatant's shield has a +2 enhancement bonus, a combatant add 2 to its hardness and to its hit points.

shilsen · Jun 5, 2006

Olaf the Stout said:
Thanks Shilsen. What page of the DMG/PHB is item saving throws located? I couldn't seem to find it when I had a quick look for it before.

It's in the DMG, pg.214, under "Damaging Magic Items"

And do magic items get any extra hit points/hardness due to the fact that they are magical?

What frankthedm said above.

Does anyone know what happens to a magic weapon that has been damaged by acid like this? Does it become a +1 hilt? Is there some way of repairing the item? Is the item effectively worthless now?

If it's damaged but still has hit pts remaining, it is still usable with all of its abilities intact, but is of course easier to destroy. It can be repaired with the appropriate spells and one should probably allow someone with the right item creation feat to do so too. If its hit pts drop to 0 it is destroyed and effectively worthless.

Olaf the Stout · Jun 5, 2006

Frank the DM/Shilsen,

What you are saying in this situation, an Ooze Paraelemental's acid would render the +1 dagger worthless should it fail a saving throw?

What exactly would a +1 dagger's saving throw be? (i.e. what caster level do you have to be to make a +1 dagger?)

I am aware that you use the higher of the PC and the dagger's saving throw bonus. The character in question is only 3rd level so I doubt that his save bonus would be higher than the dagger.

Thanks,

Olaf the Stout

shilsen · Jun 5, 2006

Olaf the Stout said:
Frank the DM/Shilsen,

What you are saying in this situation, an Ooze Paraelemental's acid would render the +1 dagger worthless should it fail a saving throw?

Yup.

What exactly would a +1 dagger's saving throw be? (i.e. what caster level do you have to be to make a +1 dagger?)

Minimum caster level is 3 x enchancement bonus, so 3rd lvl. So the dagger's save would be +3.

wmasters · Jun 5, 2006

I might be wrong about this, but since you have to be 5th level to take Craft Magic Arms and Armour, surely it needs a 5th level caster, so the save would be +4?

shilsen · Jun 5, 2006

wmasters said:
I might be wrong about this, but since you have to be 5th level to take Craft Magic Arms and Armour, surely it needs a 5th level caster, so the save would be +4?

You're right. I'd forgotten about the minimum caster level, so the item's saves would be +4. Nice catch.

Olaf the Stout · Jun 5, 2006

Thanks wmasters and shilsen for answering my questions.

+4 is not too bad. However the DC for even the CR1 small paraelemental ooze is DC11. Assuming that the Reflex save for the sorcerer is less than +4, he has to roll a 7+ on a d20 roll every time that he successfully hits the paraelemental ooze otherwise he permanently loses his +1 weapon. That seems a little harsh.

I know that you could argue why a sorcerer should be gettting into melee range in the first place but one of the front line fighters had gone down so he ran up to protect him.

What caster level do you have to be to make a +2 weapon then? And what would the save bonus of a +2 weapon be?

Where in the DMG do I find this information? I don't have it on me at the moment but I'll take a look when I get home.

Thanks again,

Olaf the Stout

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