Gelatinous cube tpk

The party of 4 (party level 7) is heading down a 5 foot wide tunnel when the lead character spots something odd just ahead (windy tunnel). It looks as if the air is solid ahead and there are some stone objects and gems floating in the air. To make a long story short, all 4 characters end up inside a CR 5 gelatinous cube.

The rules we had at hand (core 3) say they are grappled and 'trapped'. Oh so helpful! After some debate, we decided that the party could use daggers to attack the thing from the inside or use wands.

9 rounds later, the sorcerer becomes unparalyzed and touches off a 7hd fireball from his wand. He was aiming for a specific point, but I ruled that the fireball detonated upon launch because it hit the jelly. I made the sorcerer roll a spellcraft check to see if he would realize this might happen (he didn't actually know the spell), and of course he failed and proceeded to roll 35 damage! Since everyone was in rough shape from the cumulative acid damage, they all died.

So here are the various rule questions that came up:
1) We decided the characters couldn't try to break the grapple because they didn't have any leverage. Is this correct?
2) I ruled that all the characters had an effective dex of 1 for reflex saves, since they were trapped inside the thing.
3) Is the reflex save against the engulf really based on strength, and if so, does that imply the cube can have a higher than strength 10 (i gave it an 18 which thus added 4 to the dc)
4) Should the fireball have exploded immediately?

lottrbacchus said:

So here are the various rule questions that came up:
1) We decided the characters couldn't try to break the grapple because they didn't have any leverage. Is this correct?

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Nope, at least not RAW. You could at least lever yourself off the cube itself.

2) I ruled that all the characters had an effective dex of 1 for reflex saves, since they were trapped inside the thing.

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When grappled, you get no Dexterity Bonus but only for AC, and no penalty to Dex other than loosing the bonus.

3) Is the reflex save against the engulf really based on strength, and if so, does that imply the cube can have a higher than strength 10 (i gave it an 18 which thus added 4 to the dc)

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Yes it is. Yes you can, but that significantly alters the challenge.

4) Should the fireball have exploded immediately?

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Yes, I agree.

We decided the characters couldn't try to break the grapple because they didn't have any leverage. Is this correct?

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Absolutely not! They can always leverage off the floor. If there's something keeping them off the floor, then they can use that for leverage. It might be somewhat tricky, but that's what the grapple check is for; if it was simply impossible, you can be sure the rules would say so explicitly. Even if it seems impossible for a normal person to accomplish, the PCs are heroic characters.

2) I ruled that all the characters had an effective dex of 1 for reflex saves, since they were trapped inside the thing.

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Not a good idea. A paralyzed character is treated this way, but inside the cube they can still move around at least a little; they're not helpless.

Technically, would the cube block line of effect for the fireball to the other characters? If the cube got killed, I could see excess damage spilling over to those trapped inside, but otherwise....

good points. trying to calculate the blast through of the fireball would have been a nightmare!

we figured the characters were not in contact with the ground, since they were being pulled along inside the cube. i would argue this was absolutely true for the 3 that also were paralyzed.

i thought helpless characters always failed reflex saves?

probably should have given them reflex saves at dex 10, though. if i recall correctly, it wouldn't have mattered anyway because the only one who came close to saving only had 3 hps left at that point.

The characters are not "helpless", which is a term of art in 3E. They get Ref saves just like normal, with whatever Dex bonus/penalty they normally have.

G Cube

lottrbacchus said:

To make a long story short, all 4 characters end up inside a CR 5 gelatinous cube.

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No, do tell the long story... Given the improbability.... Unless you took advantage as a DM?

You mean they somehow managed to have never heard of G Cubes?
This was the first G Cube in the universe... Never before had such a thing even been heard of?
They all had really low Int? All were uneducated and illiterate? All peasants? All from the same town, former farm hands who had just left the farm?

Have you ever heard of a gelatinous cube? Strange... You live in a world where they don't exist, and yet, you've heard about such a creature?

If I, as DM, decide to make life especially difficult to players, I will get a tpk... My job is to provide an entertaining and challenging environment without going overboard. Yes, I am saying own up to it! Sorry!

XO said:

No, do tell the long story... Given the improbability.... Unless you took advantage as a DM?

You mean they somehow managed to have never heard of G Cubes?
This was the first G Cube in the universe... Never before had such a thing even been heard of?
They all had really low Int? All were uneducated and illiterate? All peasants? All from the same town, former farm hands who had just left the farm?

Have you ever heard of a gelatinous cube? Strange... You live in a world where they don't exist, and yet, you've heard about such a creature?

If I, as DM, decide to make life especially difficult to players, I will get a tpk... My job is to provide an entertaining and challenging environment without going overboard. Yes, I am saying own up to it! Sorry!

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So every adventurer in your campaign world knows what a Gelatenous Cube is how nice for you.

Fball

lottrbacchus said:

The sorcerer becomes unparalyzed and touches off a 7hd fireball from his wand. He was aiming for a specific point, but I ruled that the fireball detonated upon launch because it hit the jelly. I made the sorcerer roll a spellcraft check to see if he would realize this might happen (he didn't actually know the spell), and of course he failed and proceeded to roll 35 damage! Since everyone was in rough shape from the cumulative acid damage, they all died.

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Brand spanking new wand? Never fired before? Otherwise, he would know how the spell travels, never mind the Spellcraft. If you know so much about this fictional world and yet manage to remain (relatively, for gamers) functional in this one, can you imagine how much more a person living in that world would know?

He's either "in" the jelly or not...

If he is, the spell does not propagate anywhere, explodes at launch and likely kills the wizard, the cube, and no one else (protected by cube's body).

If not in the jelly, well, yes, detonation of Fball occurs upon jelly contact, but all inside the jelly are protected as there is no line of sight (except for invisible but physically present jelly)
or line of effect.

Except when the foe is overwhelmed or when your players are munchkins, try to err on the side of players!

btw, I quickly got some of my players to read the thread... They're of the "license revoked" opinion, but hey, they're mean!

Shadeydm said:

So every adventurer in your campaign world knows what a Gelatenous Cube is how nice for you.

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You'd think it would be the ones with Knowledge Dungoneering...