Gelatinous cube tpk

[Bagpuss]

Engulf is not automatic. You do get a saving throw. So lets here that long story.

Actually it is if you fail your spot check and walk into it or make an AoO against it when it tries to Engulf you. You get a Reflex save or an AoO not both.

Oh and he did mention he increased the Strength of the Creature to 18 (from 10) thus making the DC for the save 17 rather than 13, and its grapple +11 rather than +7. Is it any wonder that they were caught and couldn't escape?

 

[Celebrim]

Actually it is if you fail your spot check and walk into it or make an AoO against it when it tries to Engulf you, you get a Reflex save or an AoO not both.

That was kinda my point. I wanted to find out if they all failed the spot check, or if they all made an AoO and the DM didn't make it clear to them that they were making a choose to not avoid the engulf in doing so.

An experience party would probably forgo the AoO in favor of retreating and easily finishing the creature off with ranged attacks. It's just about impossible to miss a gelatinous cube, and you can easily walk ahead of it and unload into it - not that I would expect inexperienced players to know that.

 

[nittanytbone]

Problem 1 - Player - March Order

Any march order that allows the entire party to be consumed by a 10x10 cube has critical weaknesses. This march order will get them killed quickly with Area of Effect spells, traps, breath weapons, and many other effects. Furthermore, the scout (or at least a character with good perception skills) needs to be advanced out front to perceive threats and prevent surprise rounds.

Problem 2 - Player - Reaction to Cube

Characters with good Reflex saves could have tried evading it. Otherwise, an AoO beats off the Engulf attack, or you can run away. I guess they all failed their attempts to escape.

Problem 3 - GM - Souped Up Monster

Adding 8 STR points is pretty hard core, and makes the thing much harder to deal with. It would be like coming across an NPC mage using save-or-die spells with 26 INT. I guess you did increase the CR, but with a save-or-die area-of-effect monster like the cube, it increases the chances of a TPK.

Problem 4 - GM - Grapple Rules

Already addressed above.

Problem 5 - Players - Defense vs. Grapple

Grapples happen, occasionally. The party needs some way to deal with them: Someone should have escape artist, or Grease spells, or Improved Grapple, or a high strength character that can win a grapple check, something.

Problem 6 - GM - Fireball AoE

If the fireball couldn't penetrate the jelly to get out of the cube, the other characters probably shouldn't have gotten BBQd, RAW. However, I don't have a huge problem with this one -- a fireball going off 5' in front of your face should cause some damage, even if there's a wall of jello in the way. However, as a GM, I would have considered showing leniency at this point merely to avoid the TPK if I thought a TPK would derail the campaign. You can always claim that you weren't sure about the rule, erred on the side of the players to keep things moving along, and will fully research it for the future. Kind of a one time "get out of jail free" card.

 

[pallandrome]

Don't be too hard on the guy. This sort of thing happens an awful lot when you combign inexperienced GMs with inexperienced players. *shrug* Learn from it and move on.

Personally, I'd have the game continue as the players show up as petitioners in some bizarre realm out of planescape.

 

[XO]

Ghostwalk

You barely have time to brush up on Ghostwalk to extend the characters' adventures before the next session comes to roost

As to Knowledge categories, I've often fantasized about an interview for a Ph.D. "So you've specialized in the spin of the 2nd electron S orbit of the Carbon 14 atom.... Shame really... we needed a 1st S orbit man.... Better luck next time..."

Knowledge Cats MUST crossover... And if you take any reasonably competent wizard, he will be roughly four times brighter than anyone you've ever met, whereas a cleric will have tremendous insight AND a usually institutionalized education covering a wide array of topics.

Someone asked about our knowledge of animals living nearby to our homes. Wait! Many of us have excellent knowledge of that topic. If your local gangs in the city pose a threat, you will know the signs. If your job (unless improvised: I admit there are campaign specifics) is to get out there, you would have brushed up. That tied in directly to my (sarcastic) question about adventurer Int. If there are hazards along the road where I drive, I am wont to know about them...

 

[Nail]

Don't be too hard on the guy. This sort of thing happens an awful lot when you combign inexperienced GMs with inexperienced players.

Yup.

I especially like the fact that all four PCs ended up in the G^3.....apparently after the first one walked into it, the other 3 saw nothing strange....



Wow, what a botched encounter. Oh well, no biggie. It's not as if I've never botched an encounter. If I may give a peice of advice: Now would be a good time to do the "You wake up from a shared bad dream" scenario. Cliche, but effective when the DM royally screws up.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Knowledge Cats MUST crossover... And if you take any reasonably competent wizard, he will be roughly four times brighter than anyone you've ever met, whereas a cleric will have tremendous insight AND a usually institutionalized education covering a wide array of topics.

I disagree with both of these. A wizard with 16 Int is smart, but 4.6% of people in the 15-35 age range would have an Int that high or higher. Even at an 18 Int, you'll find that 0.5% of the first age bracket have that, then 2% of older adults (35-53) and even more at older ages. I consider a 3rd-level wizard with 16 Int "reasonably competent."

As to the cleric, you say "a usually institutionalized education," but that is entirely up to the DM's discretion. No sort of education or membership is required by the mechanics of the class (and a wide-ranging education is not supported by the class's skill list). The cleric class doesn't really represent I think of as a priest. So I imagine it as a holy warrior type, and the Paladin as a little extra-special bonus that LG gets.

Feel free to modify both of these classes as you see fit in your campaigns. I'd imagine that giving wizards bonus skill ranks to be used only for Knowledge skills might be fair.

 

[Jdvn1]

You'd think it would be the ones with Knowledge Dungoneering...

In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster.

For a gelatinous cube, the K(Dungeoneering) check to find out about a monster's special powers or vulnerabilities is DC 14. What would you say the Knowledge check would be to have only heard of the monster, or to realize that there's a (potentially dangerous) creature in front of you?

Without actual training, you know only common knowledge (DC 10 or lower).

If the DC is 10 or lower, anyone could pass with a half-decent roll.

 

[RangerWickett]

I am curious about how the rest of the party got trapped after the first one or two PCs were engulfed. You'd figure someone would have known not to walk into the thing.

 

[Notmousse]

I wouldn't keep playing under a DM that did that to my party.