Eldritch Glaive: too good?
RigaMortus2
First Post
Nonlethal Force said:
Not just Spring Attack, but during the typical "I use my Move Action to move 30 feet up to the opponent and use my Standard Action to attack him" type of scenario.
RigaMortus2
First Post
Egres said:
If that is the case, there would be no reason to take Eldritch Glaive. I am talking about a Warlock that specifically took Eldritch Glaive, and took feats specifically to augment it. Besides, they would still get a penalty for firing their blast into melee or around soft cover, a melee Warlock wouldn't.
I play a melee worloc in a epic campain
that invocation is very good and makes my guy more powerfull by far but it is limited. Because of movement and i find that i have a hard time getting into combat and useing it unless something comes to me. As far as useing it with other invocations if you use greater invs. or shadows the attack becomes a flat-footed touch attack. if you combine it wild the acid blast then you can get around SR if you add the udderdark effect then you do -2 lvl per hit (up to -6 lvl at my lvl) Haste gives you another attack that can up your damage as well and if you use maximize spell-like ability then you could do some crazy damage in one round given the fact that every attack is just one spell. since your invs or shadowed they have 50% miss chance on you if you are smart and get devils own luck, ignor the pry and other defence abilitys then you will be much better off aginst spells. adding feats like force of personality helps as well. because you dont have to buy weopens you can focuse on AC gear and if you get mith armor you can where med or heavey armor (battle caster feat) if you so like.
but all that said unless you have some get out of jail free card if you get jumped damaged good then the game is over a warloc cant cast anything once he is damaged enought.
Do i think the glaive is fair....................? Yes its hard to use if your DM gives you any kind of chalange you will find yourself blasting much more then useing the glaive and tho you can get a jump on a char if your close to them you might find that letting the fighter upset them befor you get in thier is much smarter.
What isnt fair is Greater Invis All the time or Word of Changeing. even Flee the Seen can be abused. but after playing with the glaive i dont think its that bad
that invocation is very good and makes my guy more powerfull by far but it is limited. Because of movement and i find that i have a hard time getting into combat and useing it unless something comes to me. As far as useing it with other invocations if you use greater invs. or shadows the attack becomes a flat-footed touch attack. if you combine it wild the acid blast then you can get around SR if you add the udderdark effect then you do -2 lvl per hit (up to -6 lvl at my lvl) Haste gives you another attack that can up your damage as well and if you use maximize spell-like ability then you could do some crazy damage in one round given the fact that every attack is just one spell. since your invs or shadowed they have 50% miss chance on you if you are smart and get devils own luck, ignor the pry and other defence abilitys then you will be much better off aginst spells. adding feats like force of personality helps as well. because you dont have to buy weopens you can focuse on AC gear and if you get mith armor you can where med or heavey armor (battle caster feat) if you so like.
but all that said unless you have some get out of jail free card if you get jumped damaged good then the game is over a warloc cant cast anything once he is damaged enought.
Do i think the glaive is fair....................? Yes its hard to use if your DM gives you any kind of chalange you will find yourself blasting much more then useing the glaive and tho you can get a jump on a char if your close to them you might find that letting the fighter upset them befor you get in thier is much smarter.
What isnt fair is Greater Invis All the time or Word of Changeing. even Flee the Seen can be abused. but after playing with the glaive i dont think its that bad
James McMurray
First Post
IanB said:
Oops. Still though, with only the information I've seen in this thread it doesn't sound too broken to me.
UltimaGabe
First Post
Having never seen the Eldritch Glaive invocation in play, I can only offer my observations of the invocation's description and this topic. At first, it looks godly powerful. A Warlock being able to make multiple attacks, each touch attacks, and dealing Eldritch Blast damage? Don't mind if I do!
However, upon further inspection, it's powerful, yes- but the reason it doesn't seem TOO powerful is because of how hard it is to use, realistically. First off, it's a full-round action- meaning in order to use it, you have to start off with an enemy within your reach (or within 5 feet of it, with a 5 foot step)- so unless you're starting off right up in the enemy's face (which is never a good place for a Warlock to begin with), you aren't going to be able to use the feat. Not only that, but sure, it looks awesome when you compare it to a Rogue getting sneak attacks on every attack with Wraithstrike- but, if you recall, Eldritch blast has ALWAYS been a touch attack, and it has ALWAYS done the same amount of damage as it currently does. And yet, nobody's complained about the Warlock being able to blast from 250 feet away. How many rogues can get a sneak attack, even one per round, from 250 feet away? None of them. And yet that wasn't an issue before.
So, anyway, like I said, the invocation looks hella powerful- but in order to use it, you have to be in quite an unadvantageous position to begin with, which can limit its power significantly. True, Rogues don't have all of the advantages that Eldritch Glaive gives a Warlock, but then again, Rogues do more than sneak attack, right? (I'm talking about skills, Evasion, Trapfinding, etc.)
It seems to me that all Eldritch Glaive really is is a way for a Warlock to finally be a competent damage dealer. Nobody's complaining about the Sorcerer being able to shoot off Scorching Rays that blast everyone to kingdom come from a range, or the Wizard firing off quickened Fireballs or whatnot. The Warlock is still just as limited in all of his abilities as before- the only difference is that now, there's a somewhat possible option of being somewhat competent damage-wise.
However, upon further inspection, it's powerful, yes- but the reason it doesn't seem TOO powerful is because of how hard it is to use, realistically. First off, it's a full-round action- meaning in order to use it, you have to start off with an enemy within your reach (or within 5 feet of it, with a 5 foot step)- so unless you're starting off right up in the enemy's face (which is never a good place for a Warlock to begin with), you aren't going to be able to use the feat. Not only that, but sure, it looks awesome when you compare it to a Rogue getting sneak attacks on every attack with Wraithstrike- but, if you recall, Eldritch blast has ALWAYS been a touch attack, and it has ALWAYS done the same amount of damage as it currently does. And yet, nobody's complained about the Warlock being able to blast from 250 feet away. How many rogues can get a sneak attack, even one per round, from 250 feet away? None of them. And yet that wasn't an issue before.
So, anyway, like I said, the invocation looks hella powerful- but in order to use it, you have to be in quite an unadvantageous position to begin with, which can limit its power significantly. True, Rogues don't have all of the advantages that Eldritch Glaive gives a Warlock, but then again, Rogues do more than sneak attack, right? (I'm talking about skills, Evasion, Trapfinding, etc.)
It seems to me that all Eldritch Glaive really is is a way for a Warlock to finally be a competent damage dealer. Nobody's complaining about the Sorcerer being able to shoot off Scorching Rays that blast everyone to kingdom come from a range, or the Wizard firing off quickened Fireballs or whatnot. The Warlock is still just as limited in all of his abilities as before- the only difference is that now, there's a somewhat possible option of being somewhat competent damage-wise.
Eldritch Glaive is pretty good. I think it can be fairly strong at higher levels, like UltimateGabe said, it's not just the extra damage, you can also add an essence to it. So get boots of speed and give some 8 negative levels and say 32d6 damage no save. Pretty nice IMO. Course that combo is only available at high levels, and lots of classes can do nasty things at 15+, so I wouldnt say it's broken. Also compare Eldritch Glaive with say chain or cone blast shapes, it's more of a spread the damage vs focusing on one target thing.
As far as the arguement that it takes a FRA, like thats some kind of cost or penalty, the majority of the time someone wants to get iterative attacks it takes a FRA. So on the round a warlock has to move up he just gets a normal blast. The fighter who moves up gets a single attack. It's basically the same thing as far as I can tell.
My experiences with the warlock class in play was a campaign that went up to about 12 or so. The player running the warlock was fairly experienced and knows how to build effective characters. I didnt find the warlock to be especially strong. So I have to say I wouldnt have a problem with Eldritch Glaive. If I was DMing I might make a few rulings/house rules on how stuff like Maximize SLA interacts with Glaive to curb abuses.
As far as the arguement that it takes a FRA, like thats some kind of cost or penalty, the majority of the time someone wants to get iterative attacks it takes a FRA. So on the round a warlock has to move up he just gets a normal blast. The fighter who moves up gets a single attack. It's basically the same thing as far as I can tell.
My experiences with the warlock class in play was a campaign that went up to about 12 or so. The player running the warlock was fairly experienced and knows how to build effective characters. I didnt find the warlock to be especially strong. So I have to say I wouldnt have a problem with Eldritch Glaive. If I was DMing I might make a few rulings/house rules on how stuff like Maximize SLA interacts with Glaive to curb abuses.
