Can you Counterspell a Counterspell?

Sound of Azure

Contemplative Soul
To me, it seems to depend on if the counterspell still counts as the original "spell", or even as a spell at all. Also, can you ready an action against a counterspell?

A friend of mine asked me about a hypothetical master and apprentice against a single enemy wizard. I said dispel magic should work, or readying an action to disrupt the enemy wizard's casting, forcing a Concentration check.

I'm still unsure whether you can in fact counterspell another caster's counterspell. Can you?

Thanks in advance! :)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

The Lost Muse

First Post
Edit: My bad - one caster could attempt to counterspell the spell another was using the counterspell the original caster... although things seem to get really complicated from there on out
 

Sound of Azure

Contemplative Soul
Timmundo said:
Edit: My bad - one caster could attempt to counterspell the spell another was using the counterspell the original caster... although things seem to get really complicated from there on out

No kidding. :D

It's hard even reading that sentence! :p

Nested readied actions give me the heeby jeebies!
 

Short answer: Yes.

The 64k question however, is if you have a quickened dispel magic available - can the primary wizard (not the apprentice) use this against his opponent's counterspell?

This area is where the D&D combat system starts to break down.
 


Sejs

First Post
Sound of Azure said:
Sorry if I'm being dense, but why Quickened?

To make up for the lack of the original caster being readied to counterspell.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't let the original caster counterspell someone counterspelling his own spell, unless he had the Reactive Counterspell feat. Quickened or not.
 

Sound of Azure

Contemplative Soul
Sejs said:
To make up for the lack of the original caster being readied to counterspell.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't let the original caster counterspell someone counterspelling his own spell, unless he had the Reactive Counterspell feat. Quickened or not.

Oh, I see. I mixed up who had the quickened dispel prepared.

I agree with that, definitely. Reactive Counterspell would be kinda useless for the original caster (the apprentice) anyway, since you lose your next action after using that feat.

...I think. Not sure If I've mixed up the order of events there though. :\
 

Sejs

First Post
2 people - we'll call them Caster and Target.

[Normal order of events]

Round 1: *Target wins initiative*
-(Target): readies an action to counterspell against Caster.
-(Caster): begins to cast a spell, triggers Target's readied action.
-(Target): goes thru the normal counterspell process... makes his spellcraft check or just uses Dispel Magic, etc. Assume all is successful.
-(Caster): has his spell countered, curses profusely.


[Proposal of Caster having Reactive Counterspell]

Round 1: *Target wins initiative*
-(Target): readies an action to counterspell against Caster.
-(Caster): begins to cast a spell, triggers Target's readied action.
-(Target): goes thru the normal counterspell process... makes his spellcraft check, etc.
-(Caster): uses his Reactive Counterspell feat to counterspell Target's counterspell, but sacrifices his next round's action to do so.

Round 2:
-(Target): casts a spell at Caster.
-(Caster): sits on his thumb, unable to do much because he used this round's action for his Reactive Counterspell earlier.



3 people version - names we'll use are Master, Apprentice, and Target.

Round 1: *Target wins initiative, followed by Apprentice, Master goes last.*
-(Target): readies an action to counterspell against Master.
-(Apprentice): readies an action to counterspell against Target.
-(Master): casts a spell, triggering Target's readied action.
-(Target): goes thru the normal counterspelling process... makes his spellcraft check or just uses Dispel Magic. Assume all is successful. Begins to cast his counterspell, triggering Apprentice's readied action.
-(Apprentice): goes thru the normal counterspelling process... makes his spellcraft check or just uses Dispel Magic. Assume all is successful.
-(Target): has the spell he intented to use to counterspell with, countered.
-(Master): gets his spell off without hinderance, magics Target into next week.



The real chestnut here is that in the 3 person scenario, it really all comes down to the initiative order. Target and Apprentice both HAVE to go before Master, otherwise the whole thing is shot to hell. Apprentice doesn't necessarily have to go before Target, but he does have to go before Target has had a chance to cash in his readied action.
 
Last edited:


Sejs

First Post
javcs said:
That's easy - Master simply delays.

*nod* Or casts Nerveskitter on Apprentice as soon as initiative is thrown down. Or both.


It's a real Wild West quickdraw sort of situation, ultimately. Which is kinda cool.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top