archer build synergies?

[cross-posted from WOTC board]

I'm sure this has been asked before (although it didn't show up on a [WOTC] forum search), but I'm making a bow fighter and I'm wondering if and how some of these feats and class abilities can be used together. Specifically, I'm looking at Rapid Shot (PHB feat), Manyshot (PHB feat), and Ranged Precision (class ability of Order of the Bow Initiate from CompWarr).

The main issues are whether the abilities listed as a standard attack can be the leadoff for a full attack, and whether Ranged Precision is itself a special kind of standard attack or just a damage modifier to bow attacks ("treat as a sneak attack in almost all ways" would seem to indicate the latter).

Assume a Fighter 5/OBI 1 (no pun intended), BAB +6 and a total attack modifier of +0 (within the 30 ft range of Ranged Precision). It's clear you have the following attack options:

standard attack with Ranged Precision, +0 to hit, +1d8 damage, 1 arrow
standard attack with Manyshot, -4 to hit, 2 arrows
full attack, +0/-5 to hit, 2 arrows (-2/-2/-7 to hit, 3 arrows using Rapid Shot)

The question is, are any of the following allowed combinations?

Manyshot with Ranged Precision: standard attack, -4 to hit, 2 arrows with +1d8 damage to 1 arrow (since "precision-based damage" only adds to 1 arrow according to the Manyshot feat)

full attack with Ranged Precision: +0/-5 to hit, 2 arrows (or -2/-2/-7 to hit, 3 arrows using Rapid Shot), +1d8 damage to each arrow

full attack with Manyshot: -4/-5 to hit, 2+1=3 arrows total (or -6/-2/-7 to hit, 2+1+1=4 arrows total with Rapid Shot)

full attack with Manyshot and Ranged Precision: -4/-5 to hit, 2+1=3 arrows total, +1d8 damage to 2 out of 3 of the arrows (or -6/-2/-7 to hit, 2+1+1=4 arrows, +1d8 damage to 3 out of 4 of the arrows, using Rapid Shot)

I'm also assuming you can't squeeze out more than 4 shots a round with the above abilities (e.g. since Manyshot is a standard attack, you can't use it to make a double shot with every arrow in a full attack, just the leadoff attack). Is this correct?

Rapid shot says "you must use the full attack action". So it works only when you uses a full attack action. And a full attack action is a full round action. Using Rapid Shot itself is not an action. It modifies the way how a full attack action works.

Many shot says "As a standard action". So this is not an ordinary attack action nor full attack action. Using this feat itself is a specific standard action.

Ranged Precision ability also says "As a standard action". It means, this too, is a special standard action.

So, the answer is NO. You cannot combine any of the above 3 archery feats/abilities.

Im guessing this answers a question from one of my players. That is you can NOT Full Attack Manyshot. E.g. 3 arrows/2arrows/1 arrow. Right?

though, once the scout gets greater manyshot...

Kylas said:

Im guessing this answers a question from one of my players. That is you can NOT Full Attack Manyshot. E.g. 3 arrows/2arrows/1 arrow. Right?

Click to expand...

Manyshot does not even vaguely work this way. There is no iterative attacks involved. You get X number of arrows as detailed in the feat description and that is your attack.

It DOES NOT WORK with pretty much ANYTHING that gives you extra attacks. At least if there is anything that works with it I can't think of it offhand.

This is also pretty much the case for the OoBI Ranged Precision, which makes it and the class almost completely pointless and useless. The only useful thing it has is the No-AoO ability which is inferior to the Ranger spell "Arrow Mind" (it lets you take normal AoOs ie. typically 5' threatened area, as well as not drawing an AoO for firing a bow in a threatened area).

There's several terrific ranger spells for archers which is a good reason to take at least one level in it so you can at least use a wand or scroll of the spells.