Improved Grab keeps killing PCs

Noumenon

First Post

• May 8, 2009

• #1

I made a house rule making it easier for players to escape grapples (don't add in the defender's BAB on grapple checks), but I still haven't solved the problem of monsters that Improved Grab and constrict people to death. This is almost the only way I've ever seen a character die in my year of D&D -- to owlbears, to giant bears, to scorpions, and (nearly) giant crabs and rocs.

It's not the grapple checks. It's the fact that Improved Grab cuts off the possibility of retreat. You escape, you five-foot step, they hit you next round and grab you again. You escape and run, you get AoO'd and they grab you again. You can't do anything else either like drink a potion of gaseous form. You're just screwed, it seems like. What do you do about improved grab? Scout and only fight at range?

 

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Victim

First Post

• May 8, 2009

• #2

Get Close Quarters Fighting or use Freedom of Movement. The size/STR modifiers on many monsters can be nigh unbeatable.

It also helps to Enlarge frontline fighters/barbarians.

Dimension Door is a good escape spell.

 

kitsune9

Adventurer

• May 8, 2009

• #3

Victim said:

Get Close Quarters Fighting or use Freedom of Movement. The size/STR modifiers on many monsters can be nigh unbeatable.

It also helps to Enlarge frontline fighters/barbarians.

Dimension Door is a good escape spell.

Click to expand...

Second on the Close Quarters Fighting feat.

 

T

TheNovaLord

First Post

• May 8, 2009

• #4

despise the 3e grapple rules...how easy is it to grab a cat or rat

I find CQF just a bad band aid trying to cover a sceptic rule

If you are playing house games and not to any living rules then just cut out grapples

if a rule is killing the fun, why use it

 

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son

• May 9, 2009

• #5

As a player: buy an Anklet of Translocation, and never take it off.

As a DM: I frequently substitute improved grab for other abilities. Bigger damage dice, rend, toss a few squares, trip, disarm, poison, disease, bleed over time, better crits, autodamage auras, trample, etc. There's plenty of other fun toys in the DM's toolbox.
-blarg

 

Kunimatyu

First Post

• May 9, 2009

• #6

The 3.5 grapple rules suck and aren't fun - graft in the 4e or Saga Edition grapple rules. Savage Worlds would also work, though it'd be a little harder since the system's not d20-based.

 

Aus_Snow

First Post

• May 9, 2009

• #7

Kunimatyu said:

Saga Edition grapple rules

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. . . are none too shabby, yeah. Well, I don't mind them, with Pin [& Crush] and Trip [& Throw] as options (feats). Shouldn't be too hard to weld on.

That is, if you really do find 3e grappling too much bother.

 

LostSoul

Adventurer

• May 9, 2009

• #8

When I played a Wizard, I always had Grease prepared just in case this happened. (Dimension Door was for me.)

 

FireLance

Legend

• May 9, 2009

• #9

As Victim mentioned, freedom of movement is the answer to this. The party's cleric (the party does have a cleric, right?) ought to either prepare this spell every day or have a scroll with this spell on standby once he hits 7th level (or both, just to be safe).

Ditto death ward (for death effects) and neutralize poison (for poison effects).

 

frankthedm

First Post

• May 9, 2009

• #10

Noumenon said:

I made a house rule making it easier for players to escape grapples (don't add in the defender's BAB on grapple checks), but I still haven't solved the problem of monsters that Improved Grab and constrict people to death. This is almost the only way I've ever seen a character die in my year of D&D -- to owlbears, to giant bears, to scorpions, and (nearly) giant crabs and rocs.

Click to expand...

When I ran 3.5, I house ruled that 50% of the damage from the Improved grab/constrict combo was non lethal damage. Thus a PC would pass out from being constricted before being in danger of dying. Also made healing the victim easier.

Noumenon said:

you get AoO'd and they grab you again.

Click to expand...

No, they don't. You don't get to take free actions when it is not your turn, improved grab and grappling need free actions to complete. They hit you, and that is it.