Slayer build sillyness
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Huh?
The fighter is a defender, so why would it be unusual for a striker to do more damage than a defender? Not only that but you're dead wrong about the fighter being less capable as a damage dealer than other defenders, that's nonsense. The baseline PHB1 fighter is VERY close to striker level damage already, AND has the best defending mechanics in the game (well arguably the Knight may now be better, but the jury is still out on that). In any situation where the Fighter can draw mark punishment/OAs he will QUICKLY surpass pretty much any other class in damage output too, including Slayers, Bow Rangers, etc. Build a good punishing GWT fighter and grab fullblade, you're LETHAL and anyone who defies your mark is a fool. Of course you won't do the damage of a Slayer or a Bow Ranger BASELINE and you shouldn't.
I just can't really understand why anyone would think fighters should be doing striker level damage if they have defender mechanics. Slayer really isn't a good point of comparison with the fighter overall. They are built for different things.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
First, you spend a feat getting this ability. It's effectively trading a feat for a flat damage bonus that's based on how you arrange your stats.
If that's more than 2, you're better off with melee training than another feat. If it's less, you could have taken something else to end up in the same place. If we built the same character with strength instead of dex as prime, we'd be able to take proficiency in gouge for instance, which would significantly increase his ability to hit things and in turn increase the amount of damage he deals.
It's certainly a good build, and it's cool that you can do it, but it's far from broken.
If that's more than 2, you're better off with melee training than another feat. If it's less, you could have taken something else to end up in the same place. If we built the same character with strength instead of dex as prime, we'd be able to take proficiency in gouge for instance, which would significantly increase his ability to hit things and in turn increase the amount of damage he deals.
It's certainly a good build, and it's cool that you can do it, but it's far from broken.
Mezzer
First Post
I'd say that's the most likely choice for 4th level, yea. It's obviously a huge boost, and it would allow me to use Unfettered Fury more often (at least, more comfortably).
Yea, that's kind of what I thought of it; something cool I can do with the Slayer, that gives him a bit of variety and still allows him to perform well.
The other thing to consider in all of this is that to really max out the dex hit, the player needed to start with a Stat of 20 (after racial). Assuming you are using point allocation (and not random rolling) that is a big sacrifice in its own, making this character (at a guess) High Dex, Moderate something else and completely naf the rest.
Its a "one dimensional whacking machine". It might have great numbers in combat, but where are his skills at? What about NAD's? What are his options for feat picks outside of Dex?
So it had to give up well rounded stats AND a feat pick to get to this point. Maybe the thing to do is consider that comparing characters is more than just comparing basic attacks. (Though I will concede...a slayer is a whacking machine)
It works, but I have been playing this game for a long time and I stopped playing one hit wonders a long time ago. For my tastes, I like well rounded characters.
Its a "one dimensional whacking machine". It might have great numbers in combat, but where are his skills at? What about NAD's? What are his options for feat picks outside of Dex?
So it had to give up well rounded stats AND a feat pick to get to this point. Maybe the thing to do is consider that comparing characters is more than just comparing basic attacks. (Though I will concede...a slayer is a whacking machine)
It works, but I have been playing this game for a long time and I stopped playing one hit wonders a long time ago. For my tastes, I like well rounded characters.
Dice4Hire
First Post
I really agree. In my group, making all characters roll equallyfor skill challenges nuked a lot of this kind of stuff. When one or two guys could win skill challenges with good rolls while the others jsut stood back, there was less reason to generalize. Now, everyone tries to have some abilities with everything possible.
Whenever I see a 20 at first level, I just cringe.
The Little Raven
First Post
You can start out with higher damage and widen the gap at higher levels by being a Str/Dex Slayer and picking Half-Orc. The Melee Training slayer isn't the best damage output if that's what you're interested it.
Perun
Mushroom
Gah. I missed that bit, but (in my defence) only because I kind-of assumed the gladiator theme gave the free proficiency, when it's in fact the arena fighter build that does that.
I'd go with proficiency and Melee Training at level 1, and then take Master at Arms at 2nd level (which would mean a three-point jump in attack bonus in one level
)Lord Ernie
First Post
Check out the Charop boards if you wanna know if this is broken or not. In fact, there already is a Slayer optimization guide being made right here.
Short answer: single stat dependency is nice, but loses out in the long run, what with feats that depend on stats (in the gouge's case, there's Deadly Axe, either critical boost feat (Spear Mastery: Str 19, Dex 19; Axe Mastery: Str 21, Con 17), etc.
Further, a Half-Orc with 18's in Str and Dex can achieve the same thing, taking Weapon Proficiency(Gouge) at first and Master of Arms at 2nd level gets:
+4 str +2 prof +1 level + 1 enhancement +1 feat +1 slayer = +10 vs AC, and damage (no stances) is 2d6 (brutal 1) + 8.
What's more, while it costs him 2 more points at character creation, he will have a much better fortitude defense, and can actually qualify for those critical feats at higher levels.
Also, at heroic level, the 1/2 dex modifier does not really matter that much for damage output. Once the full stat modifier starts hitting +7/+8 ranges, however, he will start to fall behind.
Now, all of this might not be relevant to your campaign - in fact, if I was gonna play in a campaign that didn't go beyond heroic levels, I would probably go for single-stat focus too. But if you're at all planning to reach higher levels, it is decidedly not overpowered and even somewhat suboptimal.
Short answer: single stat dependency is nice, but loses out in the long run, what with feats that depend on stats (in the gouge's case, there's Deadly Axe, either critical boost feat (Spear Mastery: Str 19, Dex 19; Axe Mastery: Str 21, Con 17), etc.
Further, a Half-Orc with 18's in Str and Dex can achieve the same thing, taking Weapon Proficiency(Gouge) at first and Master of Arms at 2nd level gets:
+4 str +2 prof +1 level + 1 enhancement +1 feat +1 slayer = +10 vs AC, and damage (no stances) is 2d6 (brutal 1) + 8.
What's more, while it costs him 2 more points at character creation, he will have a much better fortitude defense, and can actually qualify for those critical feats at higher levels.
Also, at heroic level, the 1/2 dex modifier does not really matter that much for damage output. Once the full stat modifier starts hitting +7/+8 ranges, however, he will start to fall behind.
Now, all of this might not be relevant to your campaign - in fact, if I was gonna play in a campaign that didn't go beyond heroic levels, I would probably go for single-stat focus too. But if you're at all planning to reach higher levels, it is decidedly not overpowered and even somewhat suboptimal.
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