D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 core 3 tripper build help optimization

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer

• Jul 17, 2011

• #71

By what I quoted, it sounds like it does not. And you mean 3rd HD. You need to *try* to take those animal feats, only if you cannot while advancing as the lycanthrope does it give them to you as bonus feats. If I were DM, I'd just let you forgo the bonus feat you inevitably get in return for not having to waste any feats at all. But, RAW is RAW.

If you wanted Ranger for the skills and favored enemy starting out, you could be a Human Wereape Ranger 1, too. The only feats you absolutely need are Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. Everything else can wait a level or two, its not critical.

EDIT: How are the ACs still so close? DD has +1 natural armor, wereape is +5. Huge is 1 higher penalty than large is, but the DD stats are assuming Rage, which is an additional -2 AC. To top it off, the wereape is giving +4 dex from what I can tell by converting the monster stats. So shouldn't wereape's AC in the end be 7 points higher? Or did you give the DD character armor and not the wereape?

 

Last edited: Jul 17, 2011

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G

Genesist

First Post

• Jul 17, 2011

• #72

I prefer to have the chain prof though at level 1, isn't a guisarme and spiked gloves a pretty big step down from chain? Hmm, so it loses a feat then, does that mean it would gain it's 3rd HD feat at level 9?

 

Dandu

First Post

• Jul 17, 2011

• #73

Genesist said:

Dwarf ranger 1/fighter 2/barb 1/sorc 1/dragon disciple 2:

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How are you getting enough Cha to cast spells?

 

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Genesist

First Post

• Jul 17, 2011

• #74

You only need a 13 charisma, factoring in the -2 from being a grumpy dwarf. My group rerolls 1's so we have higher than average stats.

 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer

• Jul 17, 2011

• #75

Genesist said:

I prefer to have the chain prof though at level 1, isn't a guisarme and spiked gloves a pretty big step down from chain? Hmm, so it loses a feat then, does that mean it would gain it's 3rd HD feat at level 9?

Click to expand...

A guisarme is actually better damage AND better crit multiplier than a spiked chain. The armor spikes are less damage than a spiked chain, but mostly due to not two-handing it for str x 1.5 to damage. In other words, it works just fine if you don't have a feat for spiked chain open at the moment.

And I think you're confused. You start with 5 HD (and 2 LA). Your first HD is whatever class level 1. You get whatever feat(s) you want there. Then, before hitting level two, you got cursed/infected with lycanthropy, and spent the next 4 HD gaining "ape levels". When you got your feat at 3rd HD (Class 1 / Ape 2), you got Toughness or Alertness. At 5th HD (and +2 LA, of course), you "finished" gaining the afflicted wereape template. You still needed the other feat, but had no feat slots still left at that point to take it with, so it became a bonus feat. When you take your next class level now, it will be your 6th HD, and you will get whatever feat you want, as normal.

 

Dandu

First Post

• Jul 17, 2011

• #76

You only need a 13 charisma, factoring in the -2 from being a grumpy dwarf. My group rerolls 1's so we have higher than average stats.

Click to expand...

Alright, that would probably work.

 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer

• Jul 17, 2011

• #77

Also, just noticed you're using medium weapon damage. Enlarge also enlarges your weapon, and in the case of Wereape, you'd hopefully be wise enough to carry a Large (whatever weapon), which would also get enlarged when you drank your Enlarge Person potion. So large spiked chain damage would be 2d6, huge spiked chain would deal 3d6. A large guisarme would deal 2d8, a huge guisarme would deal 3d8.

 

G

Genesist

First Post

• Jul 17, 2011

• #78

Yes, good point, I had also forgotten to add 1.5 str and had added 1. You are correct, I was confused, but I understand now. It seems like the lycanthrope template is needlessly complicated >_>. I will fix up damage now, so what are the disadvantages of going guisarme/gauntlet, just the gap in your range?

Fixed:
Damage for wereape = 3d6+13
Damage for ranger = 2d6+10

 

G

Genesist

First Post

• Jul 17, 2011

• #79

So for wereape feats.
For my 2 level one if I went ranger, improed trip and combat expertise (or reflexes, I always get them mixed up), and then toughness for ape feat. then at level 8, HD 6, gain the other combat feat? Or just go fighter and then get chain at 8. Which would be better?

 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer

• Jul 17, 2011

• #80

Yes, lycanthrope template is very complicated.

The disadvantage is the armor spikes are inferior to spiked chain and that you're now needing to enhance (and possibly take feats like Improved Critical for, though unlikely for your character) two weapons instead of just one. You're slightly better at the extreme ranges with a guisarme, but worse up close (the bite attack actually might make up for that pretty nicely, though). The spiked chain also gives +2 to disarm, which...is something. Disarming someone is my favorite thing to do with the free attack after a trip if I'm out of their reach*. You get +4 to hit cause they're prone, and since it's an opposed attack roll, they're also getting -4 on their attack to resist for being prone. Makes it almost guaranteed. And then they need to waste two move actions and provoke two AoOs to get back into the fight.

*Actually, that's not true... I usually do normal damage on the free attack post-tripping. An save the disarm as a nasty surprise for the AoO when they try to stand up. Just so they think, "Ok, I'm down a move action, can't full attack, but I'm gonna make this jerk PAY for doing this to me!" *Disarm!* "...Crap."