D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 core 3 tripper build help optimization

[Genesist]

Hello everyone. My DM is going to be starting up a campaign using only the core 3 books. We are not allowed to use monster races, so for all real purposes I am limited to the Player's Handbook 1 (no, 2 is not allowed), and Dungeon Master's guide. I have done some research and have come up with two builds, I would interested in which people suggest, or any other directions they can point me in. I am used to having much more options, so thought this resulting decrease in potential power level would give me a chance to try a spiked chain build, something I'd always been interested in. The goal of this build is not damage, it is tripping things to protect my team. I avoid improved disarm at low levels because I fear a monster oriented campaign in which it is useless.

I am aware of the horizon tripper and love it, but it comes online too late.

Information I have: We will be starting at level 7, we will be fighting fewer numbers of stronger monsters.

I realize that dwarven defender can just be walked around, but thought that the chain was partially remedy this problem. All the fighter for feats. I can't go barb, because dd is lawful. So ranged seemed best for lvl 7.

Dwarf, duh
1. Fighter - endurance, chain prof
2. Fighter - combat expertise
3. Fighter - improved trip
4. Fighter - combat reflexes
5. Fighter
6. Fighter - toughness, dodge
7. Ranger
8. Dwarven defender - AC defensive stance,
9. Dwarven defender - improved disarm, uncanny dodge
10. Dwarven defender

Pros: More HP.
Cons: Possibly not enough str to trip the monsters consistently, bad feats.

My second build is all about raising potential strength to increase trip chance. As a result I go into barbarian, and dragon disciple despite its BAB.
Orc? (for the extra 2 strength)

1. Barb - Rage spiked chain prof, speed +10
2. Barb, uncanny dodge
3. Fighter -combat reflexes, combat expertise
4. Barb
5. Sorcerer - spells
6. Dragon disciple - armor, improved trip
7. Dragon Disciple - 2 str,
8. Dragon disciple
9. dragon disciple - armor, 2 str improved disarm?
10. Barb - Rage

Pros: Higher str, higher speed, limited spell casting
Con: Lower BAB, lower HP

I add the fighter level so that I can get needed feats. Would it be better to take barb after 2 or 4 lvls of dd?

The DD, orc, and rage str gives an extra +10, which for a trip attempt is huge. let us assume 16 str, +10 from above, +4 for improved trip. This is a +12 to the opposed strength check to trip.

So thoughts everyone?

 

[Dandu]

I think Dragon Disciple's better. You can cast Enlarge Person on yourself, and that's always fun. Here's a Dragon Disciple I designed a while back.

 

[Belzbet]

Is it considered core to take classes (ones with no LA) out of the moster manual and use them? Such as the Orc (full blooded). They have +4 str. -2wis, cha, and Int , darkvision. no LA.... If you wanted high str. this may be the way to go... the -2 to wis is sorta sucky but +4 to str. is mighty handy... If you took the Orc as a race then that -2 to cha. would deter you from taking levels of sorcerer...Is blackguard an option? If you want to be a tank like character that can attempt to trip multiple times in a round go with full BA. The more BA someone has the more attacks it gets which means more trip attempts. The sorc dip and the dragon disciple dip would stall you two levels waiting for your iterative attacks (at level 7 you wouldnt even have +6/+1 you wiuld have +5 BA, you would have to wait till level 8). The dip in ranger is smart (you get +2 fort andf Ref!) since fighter wont give you much more if you plan on going into DD at lv8.

Also you should get weapon focus (chain) that increases your trip potential (since you must make a touch attack when tripping; although combat reflexes will increase your tripping, but does your Dm let your PCs get plenty of AOO's from humanoids (smarter creatures)? if not then consider getting this later if at all, that is because it is usually harder to trip big dumb creatures that let you AOO them).

 

[Genesist]

Enlarge person and the level 1 armor spells could be very useful if I go the dragon disciple route. I am not sure what classes will be in my party, but thought that a semi-tanky character who protects the glass cannons by tripping could be fun. At the very least different than my normal play style.

 

[Genesist]

I will ask my DM about orc, I think he said no monster races so that we wouldn't have a +7 LA sand giant or something. But I wouldn't be surprised if he approved an orc. Both of the DD prestige classes give good will save progression so the wisdom loss would not be absolutely terrible, and any str helps.

 

[Genesist]

Being dazzled in sunlight might make it not worth it though. Do you think for the Dragon Disciple build dwarf or half-orc would be better? Every time I look at half-orc it seems like they are worse than dwarf.

 

[Belzbet]

Being dazzled in sunlight might make it not worth it though.

yeah I forgot about light sensitivity (i usually run them as NPC's in dark caves and all of my PC's have darkvision. so they rarely prepare daylight.

 

[Belzbet]

Enlarge person and the level 1 armor spells could be very useful if I go the dragon disciple route. I am not sure what classes will be in my party, but thought that a semi-tanky character who protects the glass cannons by tripping could be fun. At the very least different than my normal play style.

Yeah armor spells dont stack with actual armor and actual armor is better. Also, I would rather +2 to attack then have my spiked cahin do 2d6 (or 1d10 whatever it is) and lose -1 to attack since when your bigger you lose attack and ac... level 1 spells lose their efficientcy quick.. enlarge person isnt that good to lose BA (at least in my mind... also with that -2 to Cha your spells perday will be pitiful and BA is always there... so i dont know

 

[Genesist]

The importance of enlarge is to raise my range. It increases spiked chain range from 10ft to 15, which is pretty huge. I will likely go dwarf instead of half-orc. Either way there is -cha.

 

[Belzbet]

Do you do a point buy or do you roll die for abilites (if you roll do you do the standard 4d6 minus lowest one of them?). I ask because you could get high rolls if you do then the dwarfs traits may be better in the long run (although 20ft spd is sucky).