Doctor Who Series 6 Fall run

MarkB

Legend

• Aug 31, 2011

• #11

From River's chronological viewpoint, her first face-to-face meeting with the Doctor (not counting when he meets her baby Ganger-duplicate in "A Good Man Goes to War", though in purely sensory terms that would have felt like a face-to-face meeting) would be when he meets the girl in the spacesuit at the end of "The Impossible Astronaut".

 

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Remus Lupin

Adventurer

• Aug 31, 2011

• #12

No, that can't be right. She transforms from Mels to River in front of the Doctor, so that would be his first face to face meeting with her as River. If she had successfully killed him by the lake, she wouldn't be seeking him out to kill him at a later point in her personal chronology, would she?

That said, the lake may be the earliest point in time and space that she meets him.

What concerns me is that if the Doctor's death is a fixed point (like Jack Harkness and the destruction of the Mars colony if I'm understanding correctly), then it's unalterable. I think this sets up serious problems for the series down the road, assuming that there will be further regenerations for the Doctor in seasons to come, how to we get back to the 11th Doctor 200 years further into the Doctor's personal chronology?

I'm sure Moffett has some kind of timey-wimey way of getting around it in the end, but puzzling it out is sure making my brain hurt!

 

MarkB

Legend

• Aug 31, 2011

• #13

Remus Lupin said:

No, that can't be right. She transforms from Mels to River in front of the Doctor, so that would be his first face to face meeting with her as River. If she had successfully killed him by the lake, she wouldn't be seeking him out to kill him at a later point in her personal chronology, would she?

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I think it would be unwise to make assumptions as to what happened at the lake, especially when it comes to the identity of someone whose face we didn't see. Just because history records River as being the Doctor's eventual killer, that doesn't make it true.

Young Melody may have occupied that space suit back in 1969, but there could have been anyone (or even no-one) in there when it appeared in 2010.

 

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Herschel

Adventurer

• Sep 1, 2011

• #14

Or the Doctor himself in the suit and it was his 'ganger at the lake.

 

Remus Lupin

Adventurer

• Sep 1, 2011

• #15

I'm trying not to make any assumptions about what happened on the lake, though I think it's highly likely that whatever the truth of the matter is, the Doctor is not permanently and irrevocably dead. But I am concerned about that "fixed point" concept. If the information by the little people in the human suit was right, then that's the definitive date of the Doctor's death, and that has me concerned.

But as for who "killed" him, I'm totally open to the idea that it isn't River at all. But that just reinforces the point -- that the lake was not his first meeting with her.

 

MarkB

Legend

• Sep 1, 2011

• #16

Remus Lupin said:

I'm trying not to make any assumptions about what happened on the lake, though I think it's highly likely that whatever the truth of the matter is, the Doctor is not permanently and irrevocably dead. But I am concerned about that "fixed point" concept. If the information by the little people in the human suit was right, then that's the definitive date of the Doctor's death, and that has me concerned.

But as for who "killed" him, I'm totally open to the idea that it isn't River at all. But that just reinforces the point -- that the lake was not his first meeting with her.

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I didn't say it was. I was referring to when the Doctor is confronted with the girl in the spacesuit at the end of the first episode of the series, back in 1969, and Amy panics and tries to shoot her.

We didn't really get to see much about that meeting, since the following episode skips forwards six months and only shows glimpses of it in flashback.

 

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Herschel

Adventurer

• Sep 7, 2011

• #17

Is it just me, or can Mark Gatiss not write a coherent or decent ending to his stories? This one had some good stuff but like the Lazarus story the ending just felt tacked on. There was a nice set up with The Doctor talking to George but they got away from that a little quickly for my tastes. Still enjoyable though.

 

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games

• Sep 8, 2011

• #18

Didn't River say in an earlier episode that the first time she met the Doctor they kissed? And that it was very memorable, or some such words?

 

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Herschel

Adventurer

• Sep 11, 2011

• #19

Tonight's episode was rather brilliant. The choice presented to Rory was rather awful yet necessary. Rule #1: The Doctor lies. I like the way they even made the smiling Rorybot look sad.

 

Morrus

Well, that was fun

Staff member

• Sep 11, 2011

• #20

Herschel said:

Tonight's episode was rather brilliant. The choice presented to Rory was rather awful yet necessary. Rule #1: The Doctor lies. I like the way they even made the smiling Rorybot look sad.

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Meh. A Time Lord in a TARDIS can't do anything about a time based problem. It's in his race's name. If he doesn't have expertise in that, what good is he?

Why not just contact someone running the hospital and explain the mistake? And why have a setup where such a stupid mistake can be made? Hey, pick a random button to decide whether we imprison you for life or not!

Stupid plot.