Tier list for PF classes, or summary of each?

DDogwood

First Post
Thats not what I was saying at all. I was saying "those who give a bad name to the tier system" are usually people who started with 3e. That would be those who look at T1 as being the most powerful in combat, they aren't really groking the numbers at all because T1 is not about combat power. Even the wizard "god" builds are focus on summoning and controlling the battlefield not blasting with the most damage.

QFT. I've been catching up on this thread, and I keep seeing people talk about the amazing things barbarians and fighters can do in combat - but nobody's denying that the fighting classes are good at fighting. There is a bit of an issue with spells like Wind Wall totally negating most archer builds, or melee fighters being limited against flying monsters, but those things are fairly easily handled by a competent DM.

The bigger issue is that casters can do combat well, but can also handle anything and everything outside of combat, too, while the dedicated combat builds are mostly useless outside of the one or two areas where their skills can help. High level casters can literally warp the fabric of reality by creating new planes of existence and bargaining with gods, and that makes the Rogue's trap finding or the Barbarian's ability to finely dice dragons seem a bit lame in comparison.

The Tier 1 classes are the worst offenders in this way, because they literally or effectively have access to every spell on their lists. No, a Wizard won't always have the exact spells he needs to slay a raging Barbarian, but the raging barbarian will never be able to teleport his entire party halfway around the world.

Again, a good DM can manage this to some extent, but it can take a LOT of work, and it's more about roleplaying and storylines than anything the rules support directly.
 
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MortonStromgal

First Post
Barbarians are T3? Come on! All you gotta do is give 'em a BFAxe and a dirty loincloth, and you've got the life of the party!

Yes, T3 because Barbarians are more the same than Fighters. Its not about fun its about versatility. The Fighter could be a Viking or a Centurion or a Knight, heck even a pit fighter. The Barbarian class means your going to get your rage on and I doubt your a Knight. The more generic your class the closer your are to T1 the more restricted (but perhaps cooler) your class the closer you are to T3
 

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