Proposal: Allowing Monster Feats

perrinmiller

Adventurer

• Apr 14, 2012

• #1

It occurs to me some classes will want and have access to the few feats listed in the Bestiary. I seek approval for the following on pgs 314-316 of the Bestiary:
Ability Focus
Awesome Blow (Combat)
Empower Spell-Like Ability
Flyby Attack
Hover
Improved Natural Armor
Improved Natural Attack
Multi-attack (Combat)
Multi-weapon Fighting (Combat)
Quicken Spell-Like Ability
Snatch
Wingover

 

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perrinmiller

Adventurer

• Apr 17, 2012

• #2

I obviously vote YEA.

 

GlassEye

Adventurer

• Apr 17, 2012

• #3

I was hoping some of our more rules knowledgeable members would analyze this a bit before I voted. But it's been three days...

YES.

 

Satin Knights

First Post

• Apr 17, 2012

• #4

These feats give eidolons a little bit more edge, but nothing over the top too much. YES

 

Systole

First Post

• Apr 17, 2012

• #5

There's nothing hugely unbalancing in these that I see. There's a lot of Fly-related features, but if you've worked your eidolon or yourself up to that point (which is going to be 5th level at minimum, and more likely quite higher than that), you're going to be fighting enemies who can fly or who can counter flying at that point anyway.

 

Qik

First Post

• Apr 17, 2012

• #6

I had initially been wary of these, but after spending some more time with them, I agree that they are for the most part not imbalanced. There are a few exceptions that I'm still a bit worried about, though.

Awesome Blow - sure, the requirements are pretty demanding, but it deals damage, AND combines both a bull rush and a trip. Seems like one could build an eidolon or synthesist (especially the latter) to abuse this feat without too much trouble.

Quicken SLA - Again, the requirements mean that this won't come into play until higher levels, but this feels like it could be really abused. For instance, a level 10 Master Summoner with the Superior Summoning feat could drop 2d3+2 Medium Earth Elementals (Augmented by Augment Summoning) in a single round, and then duplicate that in the subsequent round. That seems pretty serious to me, and potentially rife for abuse.

Multiattack - I worry about this for weapon-bearing eidolons.

Those are the ones that catch my eye. Not sure if any of them are actually overpowered, but I thought it was worth raising.

 

itsgottabeodin

First Post

• Apr 17, 2012

• #7

I'm going to have to disagree with you on some of those Qik.

Quicken Spell Like Ability only works on SLAs with a spell level less than or equal to 1/2 level -4. So a 20th level Character would only be able to select a 6th level spell-like to quicken. The summoner SLA scales with level. At 17th level it caps out at a 9th level spell - so he should never be able to apply this feat to that SLA. This also applies to Empower SLA.

Multiattack is granted for free at 9th level for Eidolons... it is already happening. My suggestion would be to have a BAB prerequisite, +7 say?

Awesome Blow ... I agree with you here. That is pretty nasty.

My big worry was Improved Natural Attack + Monks... but it specifically states that it does not work with unarmed strike now. (Thanks Pathfinder!)

Also, Ability Focus +2 to the DC for a Slumber hex? Yikes.

 

Systole

First Post

• Apr 17, 2012

• #8

Awesome Blow requires Strength 25, which is not easy for eidolons to get to, given that they start at 14 or so. It also requires Large size, which is only available at level 8, and a kind of crappy feat prereq. If you put all that into an eidolon, then they should get a pretty neat ability out of it.

Multiattack is terrible and worthless. It only affects secondary natural attacks, not weapon attacks, and any summoner with a clue has all primary attacks on his eidolon anyway which don't suffer penalities. EDIT: Also, what IGBO said.

Quicken SLA doesn't work that way, as far as I know, as by the time he's at 10th level, the SLA he's casting is 5th level, so he doesn't qualify for that.

 

itsgottabeodin

First Post

• Apr 17, 2012

• #9

Systole said:

Awesome Blow requires Strength 25, which is not easy for eidolons to get to, given that they start at 14 or so. It also requires Large size, which is only available at level 8, and a kind of crappy feat prereq. If you put all that into an eidolon, then they should get a pretty neat ability out of it.

Click to expand...

Not terribly hard. The Large Evolution Grants +8 STR.

A Biped (16 STR base) Level 8 (+3 STR/DEX) with the Large Evolution(+8 STR) automatically has 27 STR. They don't even need to put any stat increases into it, let alone any Ability Increase evolutions.

EDIT: Of course then, that applies to the other base forms (save for the Serpentine), who will merely end up with a measly 25 STR with no effort whatsoever.

 

Last edited: Apr 17, 2012

Qik

First Post

• Apr 17, 2012

• #10

Thanks, IGBO.

I had missed the qualification on Quicken SLA - obviously it looks much more reasonable with that in mind. Scratch my argument.

Multiattack is hardly terrible and worthless, considering primary natural attacks act as secondary when using a manufactured weapon. That had been my worry, and I see nothing in the RAW to initially assuage my concerns. IGBO's right, though, that eidolons get it at level 9 anyway, although a biped with a glaive, bite attack, and claws on their feat could presumably pick this up at level 1, which would still make quite a difference.

As IGBO said, getting 25+ Str on an eidolon is not difficult. Awesome Blow still concerns me.