The one night stand culture

Morrus · Feb 20, 2014

Bullgrit said:
Having "the talk" with one's kids about "the birds and the bees" is a common thing in America. Most parents do educate their kids about sex and sexuality. (I say "most" like I'd say, "Most parents teach their kids not to get into a stranger's car.") Not liking the idea of government schools teaching about sex to one's children is not the same as not wanting to teach one's children at all about sex. And not wanting government schools teaching sex isn't the same as repressing sex. Schools generally dont' teach religion, but that doesn't mean religion is repressed.

I get it, Bullgrit. You don't think the general perception of your country is accurate; that's clear. That's OK. I have no desire to convince you otherwise, and not enough knowledge to know whether such would be accurate anyway.

I'm only trying to clarify what the debate is about in answer to your question:

Bullgrit said:
Repression? Where'd that idea come from?

That's the answer to your question; that's where the perception comes from. I'm not arguing the validity of the perception. I'm just attempting to indicate what issues people mean when they use that term.

I think I've pretty much exhausted my own ability to input into the debate. I've listed the issues folks generally categorize under the topic at hand, but I'm not familiar enough with daily American life to have any strong opinion about it over there. Most of the stuff I hear about is France, Italy, Netherlands, etc. which are all pretty darn liberal about such things compared to my own country.

Umbran · Feb 20, 2014

Morrus said:
Exactly. It's the "some people" which are part of a country's culture. There's no such movement in most countries.

Um, Morrus, careful there. There's lots of countries that have enough problems having universal schooling (or even schools at all!). You won't see a movement to prevent teaching sex education when they aren't trying to teach sex ed. I mean, yeah, there's probably no such movement in, say, Somalia - but that doesn't speak to their level of sexual repression (which is arguably higher than that in the US), it speaks to their horrible economic situation.

If you want to limit consideration to First World countries, that's fine, but let us be aware we're doing it.

Bullgrit · Feb 20, 2014

And yet, even so, many countries make it free. As in no money. Do you see what I mean? It's all relative. What seems "normal" to you isn't to another country. You find it odd to make condoms free; other cultures find it odd not to.

Just because you don't hand over four quarters at the time you recieve the condom doesn't mean you don't pay for it.

But I don't see the relationship between an individual paying a buck for a condom if he/she needs one vs. getting handed one without immediate payment and sexual repression.

Relief from thirst is not repressed, yet water is not free. Would you say alcohol is repressed in England? You have to pay for it.

Bullgrit

Morrus · Feb 20, 2014

Umbran said:
Um, Morrus, careful there. There's lots of countries that have enough problems having universal schooling (or even schools at all!). You won't see a movement to prevent teaching sex education when they aren't trying to teach sex ed. I mean, yeah, there's probably no such movement in, say, Somalia - but that doesn't speak to their level of sexual repression (which is arguably higher than that in the US), it speaks to their horrible economic situation.

If you want to limit consideration to First World countries, that's fine, but let us be aware we're doing it.

Yes, the conversation is framed in the context of Western countries. Sorry; I thought that was clear.

Morrus · Feb 20, 2014

Bullgrit said:
But I don't see the relationship between an individual paying a buck for a condom if he/she needs one vs. getting handed one without immediate payment and sexual repression.

I know.

Again, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm going to leave this discussion. I don't have a position to argue.

Bullgrit · Feb 20, 2014

I think it's the term, "repressive" that is a problem in this discussion. Its use here seems to be overstepping. It's almost like Godwinning the discussion. If you don't believe in freedom at over level 9000, then you're a nazi.

I'll agree that maybe the US is less open sexually than some other well-chosen places, but calling it repressive is far past the truth.

It would be silly for my wife-swapping, orgy-going, nudist neighbor to call me sexually repressive just because I put on pants before walking out to check the mail. Like with most things, there is a long scale for sexual openness, and America is far from the "repressive" end of that scale.

Bullgrit

Kramodlog · Feb 20, 2014

Bullgrit said:
Having "the talk" with one's kids about "the birds and the bees" is a common thing in America.

Doesn't calling it "the talk" and talking about birds and bees instead of talking about sex, coitus, penis, etc, point toward a taboo?

tomBitonti · Feb 20, 2014

About contraceptive availability: My point was, while they are available, to a degree, they are not as available as is possible, and not without controversy. Is that controversy simply because there is such a wide difference of views on sexuality? Is the controversy a symptom of repression?

And, about the amount of sexuality in media. (And, while we have fits over a briefly exposed breast, we certainly don't shy away from the topic of sex. See, for example, http://www.vulture.com/2013/01/friends-sex-partners-numbers-chart.html.) The US seems to be quite mixed up about all of this! The best that I can say is that the presentations are very often unhealthy. Presentations are both repressive, as well as tantalizing. I don't know if that works out, on the whole, to being repressive or not, but the overall message seems to me to be quite unhealthy. I'd say there are likely other psychological diagnoses which result in addition to repression.

Thx!

TomB

Herschel · Feb 20, 2014

Bullgrit said:
Today, my son could walk to the store and buy a condom for $1. If I drove him, he could purchase a whole box of condoms from the drug store. Bullgrit

A related question is how common it would be for you to drive him (or a daughter) to the drug store for contraception.

"If we tell our kids about contraception then they'll want to use it" can be interpreted two ways, one repressive and one proactive.

Umbran · Feb 20, 2014

Bullgrit said:
I'll agree that maybe the US is less open sexually than some other well-chosen places, but calling it repressive is far past the truth.

With respect, if you're a male heterosexual monogamist, maybe you're not in the best position to see some of what's going on. You aren't the one who feels their activities are unduly restricted or frowned upon by others.

You think maybe if I go ask a friend of mine who has just had gender reassignment surgery if she feels there's repression she's had to work against, do you figure she'll say, "Not at all, my entire culture was behind my choice!"?

The one night stand culture

Morrus

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Umbran

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Bullgrit

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Morrus

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Morrus

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Kramodlog

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tomBitonti

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Herschel

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Umbran

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