Insidious Insight spell.......WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahnehnois · Apr 19, 2014

MarkB said:
The duration is ridiculous.

True.

You could quite easily cast it whilst disguised, beat a hasty and apologetic retreat, then return a few days later with the spell still in effect.

If you have a particularly effective method of retreat or a non-threatening target, you might be able to get away. More likely the target is not going to be happy about having an unknown spell cast on him.

Alternatively, pre-cast Glibness on yourself, then cast it at someone and apologise, saying that you weren't casting a spell at all, just practising an incantation. With your +40 bonus to Bluff checks to convince them of your sincerity, you could have a Charisma of 1 and they'll still believe anything you tell them.

Assuming the DM is idiotic enough to listen to that suggestion. Bluff isn't mind control; there's no requirement that the target is willing to engage in conversation with someone who just enchanted him, and he does know that he's been enchanted. It would take quite a favorable situation for anything along this.

More realistically, it's a spell that would become very powerful given Silent Spell or another feat or set of circumstances in which the caster can use the spell on a target who is unaware of him.

MarkB · Apr 19, 2014

Ahnehnois said:
Assuming the DM is idiotic enough to listen to that suggestion. Bluff isn't mind control; there's no requirement that the target is willing to engage in conversation with someone who just enchanted him, and he does know that he's been enchanted. It would take quite a favorable situation for anything along this.

Actually, by a strict reading of the rules, a character who succeeds on a saving throw knows that a spell has been cast on him. There's nothing which says a character who fails his save does. Since the spell only has a verbal component, all the target actually knows is that a spell was cast in his presence.

Ahnehnois · Apr 19, 2014

MarkB said:
Actually, by a strict reading of the rules, a character who succeeds on a saving throw knows that a spell has been cast on him. There's nothing which says a character who fails his save does. Since the spell only has a verbal component, all the target actually knows is that a spell was cast in his presence.

Absent some compelling context, I would assume that casting an unidentified spell is likely considered a hostile act and people will assume the worst. Casting a spell is not a normal human(oid) behavior.

If someone started making incantations next to you, what would you assume?

MarkB · Apr 19, 2014

Ahnehnois said:
Absent some compelling context, I would assume that casting an unidentified spell is likely considered a hostile act and people will assume the worst. Casting a spell is not a normal human(oid) behavior.

If someone started making incantations next to you, what would you assume?

It would depend entirely upon context. Wizards, clerics and bards in D&D cast utility spells for a whole range of purposes, many of which would be entirely acceptable in a social situation. Unless someone in the vicinity is trained in Spellcraft, they won't know for certain whether the spell is harmful or not.

I certainly wouldn't expect a D&D spellcaster to be set upon with hostile intent every time they uttered an incantation in public.

Ahnehnois · Apr 19, 2014

MarkB said:
I certainly wouldn't expect a D&D spellcaster to be set upon with hostile intent every time they uttered an incantation in public.

I think there's two rational ways to handle the general public's reaction to spellcasters.

In one ("low magic") anyone doing it in public will be considered hostile and attacked.

In the other ("high magic") spellcasting is routine and spells will be widely understood, monitored, and regulated.

In either case, this particular spell is unlikely to go over well. Given that it's Eberron, I suspect that it's the latter, the idea that someone is actively preventing spells like this from being abused (which is why this spell is odd, because it's pretty much inherently abusive).

MarkB · Apr 19, 2014

Ahnehnois said:
I think there's two rational ways to handle the general public's reaction to spellcasters.

In one ("low magic") anyone doing it in public will be considered hostile and attacked.

In the other ("high magic") spellcasting is routine and spells will be widely understood, monitored, and regulated.

In either case, this particular spell is unlikely to go over well.

I'd expect there to be a wide spectrum between these extremes depending upon region and circumstances, with further variations in any specific situation. Taking the Forgotten Realms as a for-instance, Athkatla would tend towards your "low magic" example, whereas Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter would be closer to your "high magic" example.

And generally speaking, I'd expect non-spellcasters to be likely to be untrained is Spellcraft, and spellcasters to be likely to have at least some training in Spellcraft, and would thus modify my actions depending upon whether any nearby interested parties appeared to be spellcasters.

Ahnehnois · Apr 19, 2014

If we're talking about cases where there isn't going to be any reprisal, even a 1st level Charm Person can be pretty devastating. But that hasn't taken over the D&D world.

The issues with this spell are the extreme duration and the fact that if it can be cast surreptitiously, its effects are harder to notice or counter than a charm.

RUMBLETiGER · Apr 20, 2014

Celebrim said:
I'm inclined to disallow any spell that replaces a skill...

Neat find, added Here.

Stacks nicely with Voice of the Dragon.

emanresu · Apr 20, 2014

now how to oppose a combat bluff / feint? All the imp sense motives spells dont accomplish this. Is there a spell or even a feat to avoid from getting shanked by a rogues feint SA?

eman

MarkB · Apr 21, 2014

emanresu said:
now how to oppose a combat bluff / feint? All the imp sense motives spells dont accomplish this. Is there a spell or even a feat to avoid from getting shanked by a rogues feint SA?

eman

Polymorph into anything with the Ooze or Plant type.

Gaseous Form.

Any other effect which makes you gaseous or incorporeal, or otherwise makes you immune to critical hits.

Insidious Insight spell.......WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahnehnois

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