D&D 5E So...warlocks?

Tony Vargas

Legend
The hour long rest reflects a meaningful risk to my players. They understand that their enemies may be more prepared or escape them, attacks (random or intentional) could interrupt them, etc.

Verisimilitude within the world ensures that a rules limit need not exist.
Nice for you. What about campaigns that have different pacing. Some might have a lot of travel or a lot of intrigue and have not only an hour or more between combats but days or weeks. Others might be intense, with with an hour spent on the battlefield or deep in some dangerous plane/dungeon/etc constituting a dozen encounters or more.
 

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DreamChaser

Explorer
Nice for you. What about campaigns that have different pacing. Some might have a lot of travel or a lot of intrigue and have not only an hour or more between combats but days or weeks. Others might be intense, with with an hour spent on the battlefield or deep in some dangerous plane/dungeon/etc constituting a dozen encounters or more.

Great job snipping off the part where I specifically said other people's experiences might need different solutions. :p

The scenario you describe makes the idea of anything other than long rests effectively meaningless...and frequently even long rests. Why would a wizard conserve spells when there is a very real chance that their next encounter won't be for days or weeks?

I have also run many many many games like this. It becomes my job as the DM to balance the encounters presuming that the party will be more (or less) likely to go nova depending on that sessions/adventure/campaign's pace. In a scenario where encounters may be days apart, any short rest powers essentially become daily powers: When all encounters are 15 to 75 minutes apart, short rest powers gain some value...but there is stress in accessing them. When all encounters are back to back, short rest powers again become daily powers.

The default assumption for 5e rules is that the party will experience 6 to 8 medium to hard encounters in an adventuring day. The rules behind resting are founded upon that assumption. Any deviation from this will of course create distortions.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
The scenarios you describe make the idea of anything other than long rests effectively meaningless...and frequently even long rests. Why would a wizard conserve spells when there is a very real chance that their next encounter won't be for days or weeks?
That is, indeed, the question. The system is balanced with the assumption of a ~6-8 encounter day, according to the Basic DM pdf (presumably the DMG will have the L&L-promised "crystal clear" guidelines as to how many rounds that should add up to, as well - and hopefully something about the expected number of Short Rests). Deviate from that assumption, and you lose what balance there is.


I have also run many many many games like this. It becomes my job as the DM to balance the encounters presuming that the party will be more (or less) likely to go nova depending on that sessions/adventure/campaign's pace.
Encounters, yes, the DM can compensate for 'short' days with harder encounters, dialing it straight up to "deadly" to make a single-encounter day challenging - though that's not always going to be appropriate in a slower-paced campaign.

Class balance is also an issue, though....

In a scenario where encounters may be days apart, any short rest powers essentially become daily powers: When all encounters are 15 to 75 minutes apart, short rest powers gain some value...but there is stress in accessing them. When all encounters are back to back, short rest powers again become daily powers.
Very true. If you can /count/ on an hour or more between combats, Short Rest powers are essentially available in every fight, as well. That's quite a range of possible levels of availability for a recharge-type that accounts for all the Champion's and Battlemasters' limited class resources, and the lion's share of the Warlock's power. Clearly, the effectiveness of these classes could vary wildly depending upon the pacing of the campaign and the ability of the party to make Short Rests happen.



The default assumption for 5e rules is that the party will experience 6 to 8 medium to hard encounters in an adventuring day. The rules behind resting are founded upon that assumption. Any deviation from this will of course create distortions.
Agreed, that's how it looks. Unfortunately, it flies in the face of 5e's "support many playstyles" goal. So far it supports you only if you pace your campaign a certain way - and, they haven't even shared exactly what that one supported style is.

Clearly, we can expect more from the DMG than from the pdf, so I fully expect to learn the prescribed number of rounds and short rests per day, to go with the prescribed number of encounters between extended rests, and the encounter guidelines. Which'll be great, at that point we'll all know how to run D&D without distorting it.

Hopefully the DMG will also have some more robust DM tools to help reduce or compensate for those distortions. Something more than "make it average out," that is.
 
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Barring an actual, direct action to the question, doesn't this phrase:

In general, if the combined XP total of a multipart
encounter is higher than one-third of the party’s
expected XP total for the adventuring day (see “The
Adventuring Day,” below), the encounter is going to be
tougher than the sum of its component parts.

...suggest that they anticipate a rest after every third of the adventuring day? So two short rests and a long one?
 

jaycrockett

Explorer
This is interesting, I had automatically translated "after a short rest" to mean "encounter power". I'm not sure I'd know how to handle an hour rest period. Seems like a long time if you're running a site based adventure.
 

EroGaki

First Post
This is interesting, I had automatically translated "after a short rest" to mean "encounter power". I'm not sure I'd know how to handle an hour rest period. Seems like a long time if you're running a site based adventure.

That's my main concern as well. I'm not too familiar with 4e, but weren't the short rests only 5 minutes in that version?
 

pedro2112

First Post
Yes, the short rest one hour minimum does make it a crucial tactical decision for the players. In the few 5e sessions I've run, the only used on or two a day due to wandering monster considerations.
 

bogmad

First Post
The "only 1 arcane recovery use per day" for wizards also put a big limit on the number of times a short rest is viable, from my experience. Yes the fighter can spam second wind maybe, but I haven't seen that play out in my experience.

I'm a little concerned how the warlock will keep up with fewer slots per day vs the wizard if the wizard only gets the full benefits of a rest once per day, but right now I have no real experience to say it'll be an issue. Maybe it all works fine, but I've had a wizard really down to 1 or no slots with potentially several more encounters to go, and I wonder if a warlock would have been without any spell slots for 3 or more encounters at that point.
I'd have to see how it works at the table, but, depending on the gamestyle, a houserule I might consider would be for Warlock slots to recover more "on the hour" than after a short rest.
I.e. A wizard might need to spend at least an hour researching and pouring over his books to get 1/2 his level in spell slots back, but the warlock just needs to quickly contact his patron for "a little help here!" while running through the woods or investigating a tunnel with the rest of his party.
 

evilbob

Explorer
Barring an actual, direct action to the question, doesn't this phrase:

In general, if the combined XP total of a multipart
encounter is higher than one-third of the party’s
expected XP total for the adventuring day (see “The
Adventuring Day,” below), the encounter is going to be
tougher than the sum of its component parts.

...suggest that they anticipate a rest after every third of the adventuring day? So two short rests and a long one?
I agree, but the DM supplement suggests that six to eight(!) encounters is a good amount for a day. So unless they specifically mean to chain them together, it's a hard call, actually.
 

EroGaki

First Post
So now that the PH has been out for close to a week, I'd like to open the thread up to general warlock discussion. Whatt do people think now that we can see all that they can do (and can't do).

Personally, I'm trying to figure out what the warlock's "role" in the party is. They're spell list is kind of wonky, IMO, and they lack a lot of the fun spells other arcane casters get (teleporting and the like).
 

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