D&D 5E My powergamer players wants to be a bard.

doctorhook · Sep 29, 2014

My powergamer player wants to be a bard. Half-elf bard, specifically. This player has a history of trying to find rules loopholes, and I know he spends a lot of time in the darker corners of the D&D internet looking for exploits: r/dnd and /tg/. These days I avoid CharOp conversations for the sake of my sanity, but I'm curious: what sorts of shenanigans should I be on the lookout for?

TerraDave · Sep 29, 2014

how times have changed!

keterys · Sep 29, 2014

Bards are fairly benign. The biggest thing is they can use a few spells from other spell lists, so he might pick up Eldritch Blast from Warlock, a healing Aura from paladin, 5th level spells from paladin and ranger before they get them, etc.

No big deal as far as I can tell, but if there are any spells you object to, the bard can get 'em.

rollcrit · Sep 29, 2014

That is funny, I have a similar "always looking for loophole" players. This player is one of my better friends, so I just usually let her go about her shenanigans. It is so strange people try to cheat at D&D. Its such a non competitive game. It just doesn't make any sense to try to get ahead.

Paraxis · Sep 29, 2014

I am a self proclaimed power gamer and one of my characters is a half-elf bard.

Half-elf just synchronizes with bard very well, the stat bump to charisma, the skills, darkvision is nice.

Bards are very versatile, one of the best spellcasters in the game, magical secrets lets them cherry pick spells from any other spell list. So they can get ranger and paladin spells earlier and more often than those classes do. If new spells come out in splat books all of them are free game to pick.

For example, if you rule contagion works instantly when the target is touched it is a legendary monster killer, not normally a bard spell but magic secrets lets him take it.

The lore bard because of early access to magic secrets is nice, but he might go for valor so that he can get the extra attack and later the ability to attack and cast a spell, both are nice.

Overall I don't think the race class combination is exploiting anything so all should be good, it is just bard went from one of the sub par classes to power game with to honestly one the best classes in the game.

As a side note bards get access to most of the best raise dead spells in the game.

Bumamgar · Sep 29, 2014

Well, some of the bard's power comes in the form of inspiration dice (or their opposite, cutting words). Depending on the playstyle of your group, these can be more or less powerful. If you are a group where all dice are rolled in the open and you take a little time to 'calculate' the results, then inspiration is 'balanced' as that is how the rules describe it working: You can chose to use the inspiration dice after the d20 is rolled but before the result is calculated.

If, however, you and your players possess a basic competence in math, such that the 'result is calculated' pretty much simultaneously with the die roll, then inspiration and cutting words can be a little more powerful, as the players will chose to use them only when the extra die actually has a chance of affecting the outcome. Is it game breakingly OP? Not in the least, but it is certainly more powerful than the alternative.

As for anything else bard related, unless your player is also talking about multiclassing in some way, I'm not aware of any 'gotchas' in the bard class beyond the nuances of inspiration. They get a relatively small selection of spells with some overlap with the wizard and cleric, allowing a bard to partially fill either roll. They also have some unique 'bard only' spells, but nothing blatenly OP that I've observed in play. The only thing I'd caution you to watch out for is not specific to bards, but just to spellcasters in general, and that is to make sure you understand what spells are concentration based and which aren't, so that you don't have players stacking spells inappropriately.

HardcoreDandDGirl · Sep 29, 2014

rollcrit said:
That is funny, I have a similar "always looking for loophole" players. This player is one of my better friends, so I just usually let her go about her shenanigans. It is so strange people try to cheat at D&D. Its such a non competitive game. It just doesn't make any sense to try to get ahead.

As a bit of a powergamer myself (I've even had a good run on both the 3.5 and 4e op board) I take offense to this (I must be super sensitive this is the 3rd or 5th thing I've taken offense to this month). It isn't cheating to make a powerful character... infact MOST power gamers (the good ones) pride themselves on not cheating...

rollcrit · Sep 29, 2014

HardcoreDandDGirl said:
As a bit of a powergamer myself (I've even had a good run on both the 3.5 and 4e op board) I take offense to this (I must be super sensitive this is the 3rd or 5th thing I've taken offense to this month). It isn't cheating to make a powerful character... infact MOST power gamers (the good ones) pride themselves on not cheating...

Lol, I meant this is a very light hearted way. Let me rephrase, I am not saying power players are cheaters. I think what I meant to say is , some people try to cheat a bit, its those people I was talking about. not hard core players.

I apologize for offending. Really wasnt trying to be soapboxey or anything like that.

Chocolategravy · Sep 29, 2014

rollcrit said:
That is funny, I have a similar "always looking for loophole" players. This player is one of my better friends, so I just usually let her go about her shenanigans. It is so strange people try to cheat at D&D. Its such a non competitive game. It just doesn't make any sense to try to get ahead.

Oh look, trying not to be brutally murdered and eaten by horrible monsters is now cheating.

Elf Witch · Sep 29, 2014

rollcrit said:
That is funny, I have a similar "always looking for loophole" players. This player is one of my better friends, so I just usually let her go about her shenanigans. It is so strange people try to cheat at D&D. Its such a non competitive game. It just doesn't make any sense to try to get ahead.

I don't think it is a cheating to build a powerful character. I do think it is a form of cheating when they use the rule in way that technically might be interpreted their way but goes against the spirit of the rules meaning.

I usually have no problem with players who like to build really competent characters while understanding that they need to allow the other players to have fun at the table too.