D&D 5E My powergamer players wants to be a bard.

[Sacrosanct]

After looking at the bard class more close the max number of cross spells are only 6 so do not see it as an exploit and as it starts at 10th level not bad so max known spells at that level is 14 and every time you gain this ability you gain 2 spells so its in built to the class. So over all good but not too good like the fact it gives a bit to the bard . as to mr Paraxis I could care less what you think I will decide for my self what is, being a jack-of-all trades is the bard uniqueness but making sure everything is right is my job.

I don't think it's broken either. It seems every time an argument like this comes up (caster gains an ability to cast a certain spell), folks like Paraxis always rely on white room scenarios to base their argument on. Just look at his quote above. At 10th level (6th for lore bard), the bard gets two spells to choose from, and Paraxis gives out an entire list of spells. No, it doesn't work that way. The bard does not get access to all of those spells any time he or she wants. Two much be chosen, and they aren't swapped out every time you level. Arguments like those also seem to be based on the assumption that you're always playing at max level. Does no one play from level 1 anymore? I don't know about anyone else, but it takes a significant amount of time of playing before my PCs hit level 10. That's important, and relevant. Stroke of Luck doesn't break the game if 99% of gameplay for 99% of gamers never get to level 20 to begin with. That's the exception of a sample size, not the baseline, and therefore shouldn't be presented as such.

 

[Paraxis]

as to mr Paraxis I could care less what you think I will decide for my self what is, being a jack-of-all trades is the bard uniqueness but making sure everything is right is my job.

I don't know why you got your jimmies ruffled but you just pretty much agreed with me 100%. I never said it wasn't a DM's job to make the world right for his game.

I don't think it's broken either. It seems every time an argument like this comes up (caster gains an ability to cast a certain spell), folks like Paraxis always rely on white room scenarios to base their argument on. Just look at his quote above. At 10th level (6th for lore bard), the bard gets two spells to choose from, and Paraxis gives out an entire list of spells. No, it doesn't work that way. The bard does not get access to all of those spells any time he or she wants. Two much be chosen, and they aren't swapped out every time you level. Arguments like those also seem to be based on the assumption that you're always playing at max level. Does no one play from level 1 anymore? I don't know about anyone else, but it takes a significant amount of time of playing before my PCs hit level 10. That's important, and relevant. Stroke of Luck doesn't break the game if 99% of gameplay for 99% of gamers never get to level 20 to begin with. That's the exception of a sample size, not the baseline, and therefore shouldn't be presented as such.

Again I seemed to have upset someone somehow and have no idea how? But a few points, the spells gained from magic secrets count as bard spells for you and are therefore allowed to be swapped just like any other spell known one every time you level, and from what I have seen the standard level progress is about once every three game sessions or so, that is pretty fast.

The list of spells I gave were just examples, you obviously wound not want hunters' mark and hex, or any multiple concentration self buff spells like that.

 

[Mistwell]

The big flaw with a lore bard who grapples is AC. Because you took Strength instead of Dex as your secondary stat (with Chr still being your primary). So now your light armor, and no shield, and relatively lower dex, make you about the easiest thing to hit in the encounter. And, you're out there in the middle, grappling someone, so not hiding behind the front line.

 

[ranger69]

Thanks Sword of Spirit & Paraxis. I seems I was overthinking backgrounds, or under thinking, or not thinking. Choose which you like.

 

[drjones]

The big flaw with a lore bard who grapples is AC. Because you took Strength instead of Dex as your secondary stat (with Chr still being your primary). So now your light armor, and no shield, and relatively lower dex, make you about the easiest thing to hit in the encounter. And, you're out there in the middle, grappling someone, so not hiding behind the front line.

Yeah I read the whole grappler write-up and it seems like it is an interesting focus for a character but any 'over powered' nature to it would take months of play to achieve and then be neutered in half an hour by a DM who is not asleep at the switch. Whatever the trick is, a one trick pony is by far the easiest to balance against.

 

[drjones]

Again I seemed to have upset someone somehow and have no idea how? But a few points, the spells gained from magic secrets count as bard spells for you and are therefore allowed to be swapped just like any other spell known one every time you level, and from what I have seen the standard level progress is about once every three game sessions or so, that is pretty fast.

I don't think it is terrible either way, but that is not how I would interpret the rule. Magical secrets explicitly says to chose two spells when you get the feature and add them to your list. Seems most intuitive based on the description that you could swap those non-bard spells for any other bard spell but since you don't get Magical Secrets again every level that you could not chose other spells from other classes. in fact the rule that lets you swap spells says 'you may chose one of the bard spells you know and replace it with another from the bard spell list' so that is very specific.

Your interpretation is fine, but it is giving the bard something the PHB does not.

 

[Morlock]

I really like that bards are a "power" class now, because IMHO it actually goes quite well with how the class can be roleplayed: they're a jack of all trades, always looking for a trick or shortcut that keeps them a step ahead of the competition.

Like, a cleric learns Contagion because his god wants him to spread disease or something. A bard learns it because he heard it's really effective in taking down powerful enemies quickly.

That was the first thought I had, when I read the thread title before opening the page. The bard could use a lil' leg up. I've never seen it as a class very popular with players, which is a shame because from what little I know about the mythology it's based on, it's a cool concept.

The problem is, they're musicians. And it's hard(er) to see musicians as badasses, looking at the big social picture - it's not like they've got amps. God forbid the player think of musicals during the class selection process.

So, I think giving the bard a lil' edge to attract more players might be a good idea.

P.S., am I the only one who thinks a flute or the like is the best choice of instrument for a bard (if you don't count the voice)? Light, compact, durable.

BS... that is an unfair comparison... is it theft if over the course of 3 months I exchange my US money for Canadian money, then the Canadian money to Mexican money, then into Russian money, then back to the US money and I end up with 22% more money then I started with? Lets say I did it with $10,000. Did I steal $2,200, just because I found a way that anyone else could do, but I found it and did it when others didn't?

Game, Reality. Reality, meet Game. Game, Reality is all about surviving in the real world. Reality, Game is all about having a bit of fun with your friends.

If you find his PC is obviously altering encounters to be much easier, that's a sign that creatures in that world probably know that the guy with the musical instrument on his back is trouble with a capital T. They would therefore tend to go after that guy more often than others.

I give you the flute (hidden in a pouch, pocket, belt, etc.)!