D&D 5E My powergamer players wants to be a bard.

[Joe Liker]

It occured to me last night with my bard that a strength bard using Hex would be pretty insane. He can take the magic initiate feat to gain hex and it gives disadvantage on str checks. His high str with for grappling with expertise makes him pretty hard to beat grappling wise.

Except that the target gets to choose whether to use Strength or Dexterity to escape the grapple. Unless one of those scores is extremely low, he's just going to use the one you didn't Hex.

 

[sithramir]

Except that the target gets to choose whether to use Strength or Dexterity to escape the grapple. Unless one of those scores is extremely low, he's just going to use the one you didn't Hex.

Good point. But i'm just thinking that most creatures/characters you are going to grapple aren't going to be great with both dexterity and strength. And more unlikely they are proficient in both (I haven't seen the MM so perhaps this part is wrong). Having your strength with double proficiency bonus is already pretty powerful so if you do choose the stronger of their two scores it's just one more advantage.

Like I said before, it's not game breaking, but it's a pretty powerful combination still.

 

[Joe Liker]

Like I said before, it's not game breaking, but it's a pretty powerful combination still.

Oh, I agree. Forcing him to use the lesser stat is still good tactics!

 

[ranger69]

As a long time D&D player from when BECMI was the most advanced edition I have always tried to make m character as useful as possible. Each class and race has their strengths & weaknesses. When I create a character I try to make it a fun to play for me, and interesting for the group in general. I try to avoid "one trick pony" characters as much as possible. I have seen plenty of when they have literally nothing they can do to affect the opponents for whatever reason.
One trick I have learned in the rush for more power, (increased ability scores, magic items, etc.) is how effective mundane items can be. Enter an anti magic field, no problem, I have a pouchful of ordinary items that can affect the bad guys.
I try to give my character as any options as I can.
So where does character creation become char-op? Have I been crossing into this controversial area?

 

[ranger69]

Another thought about power gamers is that the area most open to power gamer exploitation is likely to be self created backgrounds. There could be a temptation to slip in items, proficiencies, etc. that gives the character a perceived advantage.

Of course a alert DM will pick up on this and disallow the background, or turn the advantages against the character.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Another thought about power gamers is that the area most open to power gamer exploitation is likely to be self created backgrounds. There could be a temptation to slip in items, proficiencies, etc. that gives the character a perceived advantage.

Of course a alert DM will pick up on this and disallow the background, or turn the advantages against the character.

Backgrounds are designed to be customized. They work exactly like so:

1. Choose any two skills.
2. Choose a combination of any two languages or tool proficiencies.
3. Choose any one background feature.
4. Choose any one equipment package.

It really isn't breakable, unless the DM lets you make up background features (instead of selecting from ones that already exist) that do things they aren't supposed to (like grant numerical bonuses or other game effects).

And customizing backgrounds isn't even a variant rule. It is a core] rule described in the main text of the basic rules. Contrast to the variant human which is boxed as a variant rule. A DM could choose to disallow customizing backgrounds, but it would be like disallowing elves or longswords.

 

[dwayne]

As a GM it is my job to see this and to shut it down or fix it as I go, this had lead to some pissed off gamers who have been mad at me. But to be honest if they are using a exploit and know it then there wrong and are cheating and don't want them any way. With that said I would go with letting them pick the spells off the bard list they want as to other spells from other sources, roll at random to see what spell they could learn don't just let them cherry pick that is too much of an advantage and we all know this. Make them do research or have to find the knowledge to do a spell if they know of it or have to find some one to learn it from or to gleam the knowledge from. Even then I think some kind of roll to determine if they learn it should apply, just thinking out loud here. I also think some spells should not be obtainable by a bard and be class only to as to protect the class uniqueness. I will have to look at the bard more closely to make sure there is or is not an exploit as I am very good at spotting them and my players hate me for it.

 

[Paraxis]

As a GM it is my job to see this and to shut it down or fix it as I go, this had lead to some pissed off gamers who have been mad at me. But to be honest if they are using a exploit and know it then there wrong and are cheating and don't want them any way. With that said I would go with letting them pick the spells off the bard list they want as to other spells from other sources, roll at random to see what spell they could learn don't just let them cherry pick that is too much of an advantage and we all know this. Make them do research or have to find the knowledge to do a spell if they know of it or have to find some one to learn it from or to gleam the knowledge from. Even then I think some kind of roll to determine if they learn it should apply, just thinking out loud here. I also think some spells should not be obtainable by a bard and be class only to as to protect the class uniqueness. I will have to look at the bard more closely to make sure there is or is not an exploit as I am very good at spotting them and my players hate me for it.

It is not an exploit it is the class ability as written. There is no grey area here, magical secrets let them add any two spells to their known spells list they want from any classes spell list as long as they can cast spells of that level. So they can gain revivify, contagion, paladin smite spells, ranger only spells like hunters mark, warlock spells like hex, bards are supposed to step on the toes and dabble in the uniqueness of other classes, being a jack-of-all trades is the bard uniqueness.

Is magical secrets a great ability? Yes, it is but being great doesn't make it broken.

 

[Paraxis]

Another thought about power gamers is that the area most open to power gamer exploitation is likely to be self created backgrounds. There could be a temptation to slip in items, proficiencies, etc. that gives the character a perceived advantage.

Of course a alert DM will pick up on this and disallow the background, or turn the advantages against the character.

The skills, tool proficiencies, and languages all follow a structure, and can't be exploited or broken. Pick the two best skills, add in what you consider the two best tool proficiencies and you still have a balanced background.
Now the thing to remember is the background feature is for roleplaying, you should never get an in combat benefit from your background feature, they are not traits from Pathfinder.

 

[dwayne]

After looking at the bard class more close the max number of cross spells are only 6 so do not see it as an exploit and as it starts at 10th level not bad so max known spells at that level is 14 and every time you gain this ability you gain 2 spells so its in built to the class. So over all good but not too good like the fact it gives a bit to the bard . as to mr Paraxis I could care less what you think I will decide for my self what is, being a jack-of-all trades is the bard uniqueness but making sure everything is right is my job.