Doctor Who s8e12: Death in Heaven [spoilers]

Morrus · Nov 9, 2014

Why does nobody know Osgood's name? Poor woman.

MarkB · Nov 9, 2014

Morrus said:
No, his emotions had been deleted. Clara did it at his request.

I was talking about when he first woke up. The next part of my reply addressed what happened when his emotions were deleted.

Remus Lupin · Nov 9, 2014

Am I the only one who thinks that "Danny and I are going to be fine" is a reference to a baby Danny back at home, which is why Clara can't travel with the Doctor anymore? she wanted to tell Danny she loved him and come clean because she was going to announce that she was pregnant, and then he died. There has to be a baby Danny because it's the only way that future descendant pioneer time-traveller Danny can exist, since he a) is a genetic descendent of Clara and b) Looks like Danny.

So, I'm calling it: Baby at home with Clara.

Remus Lupin · Nov 9, 2014

Also, Osgood was awesome! I'm so sorry to see her go!

Richards · Nov 9, 2014

Umbran said:
Which, of course, brings in Nick Frost - terribly appropriate for the Gift of the Magi ending. I love that they got a guy named Frost for that role

"Nick Frost" almost seems like the sort of name Santa Claus would make up as a pseudonym.

Despite my love for Roger Delgado and my feelings that the subsequent Masters were never as good as the original, I think I've come to the opinion that "Missy" is the best Master of them all. I'm sure (or at least surely hoping) we'll see more of her in future episodes.

"Ooh, good point. That's a very good point. Still -- bananas!" Awesomeness, although it came at the expense of Osgood's life. Still, she went out on a high note, with the Doctor having instilled in her the idea that she might be his next companion, what with putting "all of time and space" on her bucket list. And I'm guessing the only reason they killed her off was there was no good way to keep her alive from an exploding plane, when they already had to figure out a way to keep the Doctor (awesome escape, by the way!) and Osgood's mom alive. (It would stretch credulity for "Cyberman Brigadier" to have been able to save both his daughter and his granddaughter, and it would have put him in a bad light to not have saved whichever one he couldn't save.) And there was no good reason not to have Osgood on the plane, so from a writing standpoint, her death was kind of inevitable, given the circumstances. But it's a real shame, because I really liked her.

Johnathan

MarkB · Nov 9, 2014

Having re-watched the epsiode, it's definitely the cyberman who blasts Missy - I'd missed the shot coming into frame from the side the first time, and the cyberman's deployed weapon in the next shot.

Remus Lupin said:
Am I the only one who thinks that "Danny and I are going to be fine" is a reference to a baby Danny back at home, which is why Clara can't travel with the Doctor anymore? she wanted to tell Danny she loved him and come clean because she was going to announce that she was pregnant, and then he died. There has to be a baby Danny because it's the only way that future descendant pioneer time-traveller Danny can exist, since he a) is a genetic descendent of Clara and b) Looks like Danny.

So, I'm calling it: Baby at home with Clara.

The timing doesn't look right. It's only two weeks later, and there's no indication of a 9-month gap in the timeline prior to this episode.

Leaving aside hand-waving of "timey-wimey", it's possible that Danny already had a kid from a former relationship. All it takes is for their distant descendant to get together with one of Clara's distant descendants at some point for there to be common DNA.

Richards · Nov 9, 2014

I don't think Remus was saying Clara had already had the baby, merely that she knew she was pregnant at that point. (And that if it was a boy, she'd be naming it "Danny.") It's an interesting theory, and one that I think is perfectly plausible. (Plus, it helps explain the "Future Astronaut Pink" from the "Listen" episode.)

Johnathan

Ryujin · Nov 9, 2014

Morrus said:
No, his emotions had been deleted. Clara did it at his request.

The TARDIS is equipped to do anything. What on earth could that plane possibly do that the TARDIS couldn't? Plus it can't be attacked by Cybermen.

My take on that is the 'duty of a soldier' angle. As they say, "Once a soldier, always a soldier." The problem with Cybermen is that once their indoctrination is complete, they have no emotion. Is duty an emotion? The "love is a promise" thing is a little odd, I'll admit, but I think that it ultimately came down to fulfilling his sworn duty.

I'd not be letting The Master/Missy anywhere near my TARDIS. He had already stolen it from The Doctor more than once, in the past.

As to the disintegrator/cell phone doohickey she didn't still have it on her, but it was still in the room where she was being held. Presumably she just picked it up after freeing herself.

Nellisir · Nov 9, 2014

Best episode of the season.

I initially thought Missy teleported, because it was a blue effect rather than a red effect, but I'm not sure which color represents a Cyberman blast. Missy's teleport earlier was blue, and her disintegrations were red.
Is cyberpollen really a better term than nanotech?
I think the whole "love is a promise" bit overrode the Cybermen coding. It's explicitly not "an emotion"; it's more of an order. So CyberDan's overriding order is to protect Clara. Plus, Missy is bananas. Her programming is probably weird as hell.
Danny and the kid was perfect. Exactly right on the nose.
I don't know about Gallifrey; reading this thread I guess Missy lied, but I didn't get that so much from the episode; I thought the Doctor just teleported a ways away to look at it. Did seem odd.
Michelle Gomez. Best Who villain ever. I'll bet they have to rebuild the scenery to get the teeth marks out after she's done shooting. I want to see her and Moriarty together.

Remus Lupin · Nov 9, 2014

I think it's possible that there had been a longer interval than just two weeks since the cyber attack. We only know that she had called him two weeks before, but I'm also open to the possibility that she's still pregnant and not far along. I don't know how else "Danny and I will be fine" makes sense. And the doctor knows, which is why the remark doesn't strike him as odd.