Doctor Who: Past, Future, and Thoughts on the End of the 13th Doctor (SPOILERS!)

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
And that lasted how long exactly? Five minutes into the first episode of the pilot? Maybe ten?
All those historical figures dropped into the show over the decades are typically there to teach the kids who Madame Curie is. There's education in it. My kids got a lot out of the Demons of Punjab during Whittaker's run and I bet a lot of adults did, too.
Its only ever been science fiction in the sense that science-sounding nonsense has been said and there's time travel, space travel, and aliens. It's always been pure cartoon.
"We're turning people into cyborgs" is a lot closer to hard sci-fi than "there's a war between Time and Space."
 

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MarkB

Legend
I really want to pull a Stephen King's "Misery" and, trapped in a remote cabin, get him to explain what he thinks "the War of Time vs. Space" means in English.

Surely there are enough Doctor Who fans in British astrophysics programs who would be happy to share with him a layman's version of actually cool science stuff that he doesn't have to insist that time is named after Planet Time and that Time can somehow go to war with Space.

Real science -- remember, this started as an educational show -- is plenty wild and this show should at least make a token effort to be science fiction instead of pure cartoon.
Well, at least it's not as bad as Kill the Moon. Scientific mumbo-jumbo when it comes to esoteric concepts is one thing, but glaringly ludicrous inaccuracies about things so well-known that even the most casual viewer can see the idiocy is quite another.
 


overgeeked

B/X Known World
All those historical figures dropped into the show over the decades are typically there to teach the kids who Madame Curie is. There's education in it. My kids got a lot out of the Demons of Punjab during Whittaker's run and I bet a lot of adults did, too.
And most of it is historically inaccurate, so other than name drops, it’s not really educational in any practical sense.
"We're turning people into cyborgs" is a lot closer to hard sci-fi than "there's a war between Time and Space."
Don’t mistake me. I’m not defending the war between Time and Space. I’m pushing back against the observably false claim that Who was ever properly educational or in any meaningful way scientifically accurate.
Well, at least it's not as bad as Kill the Moon. Scientific mumbo-jumbo when it comes to esoteric concepts is one thing, but glaringly ludicrous inaccuracies about things so well-known that even the most casual viewer can see the idiocy is quite another.
Yeah. It should be more serious and scientifically accurate like Classic Who. Mondas. A hollow earh filled with monsters. Inflatable plastic chairs that eat people. Mannequins that come to life and kill people. Spiders so big they’d collapse under their own weight. Giant single celled organisms. Dinosaurs the size of sky scrappers. Lizard people from the dawn of time. Aliens smart enough to explore the galaxy and conquer parts of it but stupid enough to have a weakness to gold or a literal kill switch in the back of their armor. Mini tanks that are immune to automatic weapons but collapse when hit gingerly with a baseball bat.

Doctor Who has literally never cared about scientific accuracy. Fans that have convinced themselves otherwise either don’t know science or are wearing thick nostalgia goggles.
 

MarkB

Legend
Spiders so big they’d collapse under their own weight. Giant single celled organisms.
And Kill the Moon had both of those in one organism.
Mini tanks that are immune to automatic weapons but collapse when hit gingerly with a baseball bat.
Not so gingerly. And it was a baseball bat enhanced by a machine entity that can re-engineer stars.
Doctor Who has literally never cared about scientific accuracy. Fans that have convinced themselves otherwise either don’t know science or are wearing thick nostalgia goggles.
True enough, but there's a difference between being deliberately fantastical and being comically inaccurate. What makes Kill the Moon bad is that it gets everything wrong about the science while trying to make the science a part of both the puzzle and the dilemma.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
True enough, but there's a difference between being deliberately fantastical and being comically inaccurate.
If you say so. Doctor Who tends to be both at once.
What makes Kill the Moon bad is that it gets everything wrong about the science while trying to make the science a part of both the puzzle and the dilemma.
Why the focus on Kill the Moon? It was no worse than most other Doctor Who episodes. It’s about on par for science in Who. New or Classic.
 

MarkB

Legend
If you say so. Doctor Who tends to be both at once.

Why the focus on Kill the Moon? It was no worse than most other Doctor Who episodes. It’s about on par for science in Who. New or Classic.
It's actually pretty notorious. One of the least popular episodes of the time, both among fans and critically, and a lot of reviews cited the scientific inaccuracies as a particular problem.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Why the focus on Kill the Moon? It was no worse than most other Doctor Who episodes. It’s about on par for science in Who. New or Classic.
Because the premise of Kill the Moon would have made life on Earth for millions of years prior to that episode look very different, since the tides and everything else would have been different. And, unless I'm forgetting something, it also should have left the sky permanently without a moon after that.

It's a plot that would have been a third-rate Outer Limits episode.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
It's actually pretty notorious. One of the least popular episodes of the time, both among fans and critically, and a lot of reviews cited the scientific inaccuracies as a particular problem.
Because the premise of Kill the Moon would have made life on Earth for millions of years prior to that episode look very different, since the tides and everything else would have been different. And, unless I'm forgetting something, it also should have left the sky permanently without a moon after that.
I’m aware. It’s still about on par for the science in Doctor Who.
It's a plot that would have been a third-rate Outer Limits episode.
So about the same as vast majority of Doctor Who.

Doctor Who is not some epic, amazingly written glorious thing. It’s a barely-better-than-rubbish children’s show with a bit of nonsense science now and again. It’s goofy nonsense from start to finish. And I love it for that. It’s my favorite TV show. But I have no illusions about what it is.
 

GreyLord

Legend
I like Doctor Who. There are only a few things that I didn't like about Chibnall's turn...

1. Some of his stuff is a little hard to understand at times. Like the entire switching between illusionary past and present regarding the Doctor's childhood and past. This also applies to FLUX. I still don't exactly understand everything about that stuff. They have TIME as a literal being!? How does that actually make sense considering the Doctor's traveling through it...etc.

2. I actually didn't much care for the Master. This is probably my least favorite rendition of the Master/Missy thus far. He just didn't seem...as fun...as other ones have been.

3. I hated the entire destruction of Gallifrey...again. Especially turning everyone into Cybermasters? It doesn't even really explain how that happened. It would seem something that is kind of impossible to pull off, and they don't really explain why that was even possible. It still makes absolutely no sense to me (probably related somehow to my #1 point).

Other than that, most of it was fine. He had a lot of callbacks to the sixth and seventh doctor's periods with the one real callback to the 4th doctors Brain of Morbius.

And most of the doctors have a pretty big mess with old foes and a big showdown at the end. The 9th doctor did (though it was a little more unexpected I suppose so not as big as they went later). The 10th doctor did with the Master and Gallifrey and all that.

The 11th doctor definitely had a bunch of old foes for his regeneration episode.

Have to admit I can't recall a ton of the 12th doctor's regeneration, so can't comment on it off the top of my head, even if I saw the episode.

I thought the episode overall was fine for the 13th doctor's regeneration (thought it was one of the better episodes actually, even if I don't care much for this iteration's master).
 

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