D&D 5E Dropping Flyers Cheese

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Saeviomagy

Adventurer

• Feb 16, 2015

• #61

emdw45 said:

Seriously, though, this thread is making me think that the best and most sensible way to make dragons "deserve" their reputation is for them to proactively seek out threats (PCs) and deal with them on their own terms... preferably long before the party's average level catches up to the dragon's CR.

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http://www.pvponline.com/comic/2015/01/01/accrual-mistress

I think that's much more likely.

Seriously though - the truly canny and adventurer-aware dragon probably coexists with it's neighbours to some extent. If it's just smashing it's neighbours and carrying off their cattle, it's already exhibiting an amazing level of hubris and a great lack of foresight, and it won't be long before someone shows up and defeats it.

 

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Eejit

First Post

• Feb 16, 2015

• #62

DaveDash said:

When your players start throwing around Forcecage, you'll want something like Misty Step and/or counter spell. Unless you want to rule that a Dragon won't fit into a Force Cage based on ThoM instead of grid sizes.

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Grid sizes don't represent the physical size of a creature, just the space it controls on the battlefield (PHB 191), so Force Cage isn't that straightforward.

 

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DaveDash

Explorer

• Feb 16, 2015

• #63

Eejit said:

Grid sizes don't represent the physical size of a creature, just the space it controls on the battlefield (PHB 191), so Force Cage isn't that straightforward.

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Depends if you want endless arguments at you table or not. The size of creatures are not defined anywhere.

 

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Eejit

First Post

• Feb 16, 2015

• #64

So? 5e has a lot of DM adjudication, RAW this is another example.

 

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DaveDash

Explorer

• Feb 16, 2015

• #65

Eejit said:

So? 5e has a lot of DM adjudication, RAW this is another example.

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The reason grids and spaces are there in the first place are for those of us that like a little more consistency in combat than what the DM feels like that day.

"I force cage the Dragon".
"Nah he's too big".
"I force cage the golem!".
"Nah he's too tall".

What a neat game for the player.

 

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Eejit

First Post

• Feb 16, 2015

• #66

Yet that's how this no-save spell is apparently balanced, RAW. Feel free to house rule and use grid sizes of course.

 

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DaveDash

Explorer

• Feb 16, 2015

• #67

Eejit said:

Yet that's how this no-save spell is apparently balanced, RAW. Feel free to house rule and use grid sizes of course.

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Where is the size of a Dragon RAW?

 

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Eejit

First Post

• Feb 16, 2015

• #68

DaveDash said:

Where is the size of a Dragon RAW?

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Implied to be up to the DM as spaces don't correspond exactly with physical size, RAW. Rulings not rules.

 

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Paraxis

Explorer

• Feb 16, 2015

• #69

I see the force cage issue as pretty clear cut.

Large = 10 by 10 ft. examples = Hippogriff, ogre
Huge = 15 by 15 ft. examples = Fire giant, treant
Gargantuan = 20 by 20 ft. or larger examples = Kraken, purple worm
From page 6 of the monster manual.

So any large creature will fit withing a 10x10 force box, any huge creature will fit withing the force cage option, and some but not all gargantuan creatures will fit withing the force cage option since some are "or larger".

 

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DaveDash

Explorer

• Feb 16, 2015

• #70

Eejit said:

Implied to be up to the DM as spaces don't correspond exactly with physical size, RAW. Rulings not rules.

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You said that ruling that a Dragon based on grid size fits into a force cage is a house rule, and that wasn't RAW. So by RAW, what's the size of a Dragon then?

If you like running the kind of inconsistent game where your players never quite know what's going on, and their most powerful spells are subject to your whim, more power to you. For the rest of us, there are grids and spaces.