D&D (2024) Flying fighter with Topple vs multiple flying enemies

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I mean, we can accept a medium-sized character is somehow a threat to a giant or a dragon in the game, so whether you're 3' tall, 5' tall, or 7' tall doesn't make a huge difference here.
DING! This is 100% correct.

At some point people just need to accept that occasionally the game trumps the lore. WotC makes the game relatively balanced and fun regardless of what you play... at the expense of world-building or "the reality". And if any of us do not like that... we have two choices-- either not play D&D, or we make our own changes so that the game and lore more closely align to what we expect/want, and we stop demanding WotC make those changes for us.
 

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Horwath

Legend
DING! This is 100% correct.

At some point people just need to accept that occasionally the game trumps the lore. WotC makes the game relatively balanced and fun regardless of what you play... at the expense of world-building or "the reality". And if any of us do not like that... we have two choices-- either not play D&D, or we make our own changes so that the game and lore more closely align to what we expect/want, and we stop demanding WotC make those changes for us.
problem is that the game is internally inconsistent.

When you have a Large character as NPC it gains double base damage from weapons than a Medium character.
Why is there no jump from Small to Medium with weapons?
Huge characters have triple base damage in comparison to Medium characters? Gargantuan have quadruple damage.

Why only small to medium inconsistency?
"small greatsword" should only do 1d6 damage

Why does enlarge spell do not double base weapon damage but only adds +1d4?
Is that spell too strong? then make it 3rd level instead of 2nd, maybe with larger duration.
 

Horwath

Legend
I mean, we can accept a medium-sized character is somehow a threat to a giant or a dragon in the game, so whether you're 3' tall, 5' tall, or 7' tall doesn't make a huge difference here.
Average human with greatclub, 10 STR
+2 attack, 1d8 damage.

average ogre , 19 STR
+6 attack, 2d8+4 damage.

I would say that average human has very little chance, even with same HP/AC
 

Asisreo

Patron Badass
Average human with greatclub, 10 STR
+2 attack, 1d8 damage.

average ogre , 19 STR
+6 attack, 2d8+4 damage.

I would say that average human has very little chance, even with same HP/AC
Unless I missed what level-ups do to your height, a human fighter can easily compete with an ogre after a certain level.
 


DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
problem is that the game is internally inconsistent.
Doesn't matter.

If the game can be relatively balanced and fun for most people with no change in mechanics with going from Small to Medium, and a buff to the mechanics going to Medium to Large... the game will do so. Reality and consistency of how these characters "should" be able to do things with these changes be damned.

It's no different than wondering why getting chopped down with a battleaxe only does 2 more points of damage on average versus getting stabbed with a dagger. "Reality" says taking a battleaxe to various parts of the body will do multitudes in additional damage than taking a stab wound. But the game does not emulate that because it makes the game not work as a game.

Treat the game rules as a game to be played and not as a simulation of reality. Then take the results of the game and interpret it into a pseudo-narrative that the table can build additional stories off of. But they are not and never will be on a one-for-one basis. And to expect otherwise is to completely miss what Dungeons & Dragons has been since the game was first invented.
 


James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Yeah basically, the argument for verisimilitude is a bit flawed here, as player characters of any height can take on creatures that should outmass them to a ridiculous degree; a hill giant's club should send a human fighter in full plate flying through the air ala Skyrim, and their greatsword should bounce off a big ol' dragon's dense body structure like it was a Nerf weapon.

The 3.5 approach of downgrading offensive punch for small creatures by giving them greater accuracy and defense was perfectly acceptable to me (the bigger something is relative to you, the easier it is to hit, and the smaller profile you present in combat), but 5e doesn't like granular changes to begin with, let alone the effect on bounded accuracy if say, Halflings did d4 less damage but got d4 bonus to hit on every attack, which is why Enlarge/Reduce only alters damage.

And it's not like the racial abilities of Gnomes and Halflings are significantly better than anyone else, which is another way you could balance out the disadvantage of being Small, if there are no advantages allotted to it.

Anyone, large or small, being a viable adventurer and able to perform heroic deeds and fight deadly monsters is a large part of D&D's DNA, not being a simulated reality. So we have a lot of strange things we're intended not to look at too closely, like hit points, healing surges, the ability of dragons to fly or exhale lightning, and so on.

Some people argue that we shouldn't excuse one point of fantasy because other points of fantasy exist, but I think they're missing the larger picture- D&D is not grounded low fantasy. It's the kind of game that lets Conan defeat gorillas and lions with his bare hands or any random weapon he picks up, often with less armor than he'd like to have, and not only live to tell the tale at the next tavern he stops at, but win.

Now back to the OP, honestly, given the huge advantages flying foes have over most adventurers, them being susceptible to being knocked to the ground to "fight fair" doesn't strike me as a problem at all, far better than telling your big plate wearing He-Man that he better bust out a longbow or javelins and pray something gets in range of him (and that he can hit the broad side of a barn if his Dexterity is significantly lower than his Strength).
 


aco175

Legend
This seems appropriate.

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