D&D 5E ForgedAnvil D&D 5E Character Generator


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Dannyboy7702

First Post
Any chance that XGE will be added and the latest version still circulated outside of here? Torrent or something?

I am not going to step on Forge's toes. He has mentioned to me that he would like to finish updating the CS with the material from XGtE and get it out to everyone. But, not sure how he can distribute it to the masses.
 



James Devenberg

First Post
...

All of that ignores the point, though, which is that no one wants to re-purchase their entire 5e library, even at a half of the inflated MSRP, just to gain access to a damned character builder that includes the classes in the books they've already bought.

...

Like I said in my post, I'm not really taking a for or against D&D Beyond stance. The original claim about D&D Beyond I responded to was claiming it was a PDF with no production costs which, whether or not you *like* D&D Beyond, is obviously not what D&D Beyond is if you bother to try it for more than 5 minutes.

Again, there are plenty of valid criticisms of D&D Beyond (like not wanting to buy all your books over again), so if you're going to criticize it, stick to valid points instead of making patently false claims (which you did not do but the person I responded to originally did).

I happened to begin playing D&D for the first time very recently (about 2 weeks before Beyond launched), so the only book I owned was the PHB and for me it wasn't a prospect of repurchasing content I'd already bought, but deciding whether to buy a digital or physical version. I've bought both ways and think each way has pros and cons.
 

James Devenberg

First Post
First you just said you have no idea, you don't.

Second I didn't claim what you said I claimed.

You said, "Another thing about D&D Beyond, the full price you pay for each book costs WoTC nothing, its just a PDF with no production cost. Going rate for PDF versions of anything is always way lower then the print version"

I don't know how to interpret that other than you claiming that D&D Beyond is a PDF with no production cost. If that isn't what you meant, then I'm sorry I interpreted what you said that way. I was basically just taking what you said at face value though.

It IS essentially a PDF generator, very few people will play from the app. I know they coded, but its a lot simpler then you suggest, in no way does it justify the prices they are charging, none. You paying full book price for that, plus the ability to look up things. The production cost is IMMENSELY lower, it is no where near the production costs of a print book, and since they already had all the content already designed and paid for its ridiculous to claim that it isn't just a flat out cash grab.

It isn't. Just because you aren't using or don't see the value in the features that are there does not mean that they aren't there and weren't created. It just means you may not be the target audience for D&D Beyond. The features are there and they work well. I prefer digital character sheets to paper because I have horrific handwriting and I can have a hard time reading my own hand writing 2-3 weeks later. D&D Beyond has a great character creator and digital character sheet.

Third, I understand that BEHIND THE APP there was work done, sure. Just like it is when you produce a book, of course it isn't zero production time and anyone who thinks it is and that's what I claimed missed exactly what I was saying. It takes MORE time to create the content and get it into book form then it would to code it, by far. The content has already created and paid for completely, its already in DB format, it is when getting ready for production printing. Changing the form of the content is a pittance compared to creating it and getting into written form.

Again, I just took what you said at face value. Your exact wording was that it was just a PDF with no production costs.

As far as whether the coding or book takes more time, I have no idea because neither is something I do. Do you actually work in one/both of the areas to know which takes more time or are you just basing your claim on conjecture?

The idea I am conveying is that the price points are completely absurd and out of line with any other digital content, including most video games that cost millions to produce and 100,000+ hours to make. That's a 25 person production team working on nothing else for two years. Clearly Beyond didn't have that and didn't cost millions to make. Overwatch cost $15-25m but reused assets from another project (Titan) that cost about $50 million to produce, so OW cost north of $65m and 5 years of production time. It costs ~$40 to play Overwatch forever, with continuous free content updates. Beyond with all content is over $180+ with additional purchases coming in the future. If you own all the books (I do and everyone here owns some) you get nothing in Beyond for doing so.

D&D Beyond isn't run by WotC. Its run by Curse (a subsidiary of Amazon). Curse has to pay WotC a license fee to use their content. WotC is not going to make the license fee something that is substantially cheaper than the physical books (like a $40 one time fee) or they are going to lose a ton on book sales. D&D and Overwatch have completely different business models and to compare the two is ridiculous. The only reason Overwatch is a one time fee is because it relies heavily on micro-transactions for profit, and its a strategy that is working. Can you play Overwatch without every paying another cent? Yes, just like you can play D&D for free by using nothing but SRD. But, few people actually play D&D or Overwatch that way. But, again, they are two completely different products aimed at different consumers using different monitization strategies. You're comparing apples and oranges.

At the very least they should include from now on a one time code with each book purchase to use the same content in Beyond. Or you can register your books to accomplish same. My fear (and it will probably be true) is that WoTC will just stop releasing book content and put it only in Beyond, which is far more profitable. IMO, Beyond is essentially a test run for this delivery system. The company in their annual report claims an "untapped mobile market." They are trying to tap it now, at what seems to me an excessive cost.

Again, Beyond is not run by WotC, its run by Curse. What intensive is there for Curse to give you a product for free because you gave WotC and whatever distributor you bought the book from money? D&D Beyond is another retailer to buy books from, just like Amazon, Walmart, or your FLGS. They have chosen to distribute the content in a different way than any of the others, but that does not change the fact that they are in fact a distributor.
 

marsalgw

First Post
Thanks for all your hard work FA. The generator is what helped me get started with D&D and has helped many others enjoy this game. Sad to see it have to go, for now. Hope you find somewhere else to host it and get the chance to add XGtE so we can get the final product of that version.

Thanks WotC and Curse...thanks a lot.
 

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