D&D 5E ForgedAnvil D&D 5E Character Generator

epithet

Explorer
...
And, I mean, you're still getting every bit of content that is in the book, so the D&D Beyond version has the production cost of the book (minus printing and shipping) plus the cost associated with creating and serving it as a database.
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While that is true, that content (which you have "bought") is only available so long as D&DB remains live. In some respects it's more like a lease.

All of that ignores the point, though, which is that no one wants to re-purchase their entire 5e library, even at a half of the inflated MSRP, just to gain access to a damned character builder that includes the classes in the books they've already bought.

The ForgedAnvil character sheet might fall under fair use, or it might not. We'll probably never know, because there's no way ENWorld and ForgedAnvil would mount a legal challenge to Hasbro/WotC and their DMCA takedown notice. The character sheet is a free, fan-made labor of love, and chances are that FA will just stay "[fornicate] this" and find other things to do with his time. Against someone making something for free, a takedown notice is an easy "I win" button that's being used against anyone who is offering a solution that competes with D&DB.
 

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basilforth

Explorer
Hi folks! We've received a DMCA takedown demand for this download from WotC's lawyers. I've already let ForgedAnvil know. I'll be dealing with it when I get back to work on Monday. Just keeping you all in the loop.

Grieving! That's too bad. This sheet has made the game and character creation accessible and fun. Thank you, Forged Anvil for your hard work!
 

Xanlithe

First Post
<<< SNIP >>>

Now WoTC wants each player to buy the whole thing for themselves, and then play with each other. They believe its like an MMO, where each player spend $40-60 to get into a game. WoTC wants you to spend $150 + for PHB (required) Sword Coast (of course) Xan (extras) Volo (races), all up front, to essentially use a PDF generator.

WoTC may "want" each player to buy everything, but all the basics are free and you can share the paid material. It's not perfect (far from it), especially since you don't own anything you've bought from DDB. So if it goes t*ts up, you are SOL. And it does not address (and will not address) those folks who have already bought the physical books.

I did see a video that explains how it works. I'll post the link. The guy who presents may be a shill, but I think it gives a good overview of the product.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Pe3TkH5Mk

I think DDB would be good for many people, especially the younger generation who want EVERYTHING digital.
 

Dannyboy7702

First Post
I’m not sure what you are talking about. The physical books are $50 each. I can get the books from beyond for $25-30. The are half price.

I don't know where you are buying your books from but you are getting ripped off. And yes, the cost for books on Beyond are insane.
 

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Dannyboy7702

First Post
D&D Beyond

So, I decided to compare the prices of the paper/hard copy books (Amazon) vs. the digital books offered by D&D Beyond. I broke the costs down into 3 categories; Guides, Adventures, and Total Cost. I even supplied the subscription costs. I will admit that D&D Beyond is cheaper across the board for all 3 categories (they only work on D&D Beyond). But, we must realize that in order to utilize D&D Beyond, players must have access to the internet. There are a lot of user that play in locations that don't allow them access to their internet or there is no internet available. We must also realize that not everyone that plays D&D owns a tablet (iPad or whatever) and let's be real here, using a smartphone to access Beyond is going to be a pain in the backside and unless you have an unlimited data plan it will be expensive (as it is easy to run out of data).

A community member (Xanlithe) pointed something out that myself and some of the other community members did think about. He stated...

WoTC may "want" each player to buy everything, but all the basics are free and you can share the paid material. It's not perfect (far from it), especially since you don't own the anything you've bought from DDB. So if it goes t*ts up, you are SOL. And it does not address (and will not address) those folks who have already bought the physical books.

Essentially, you are paying hundreds of dollars to rent digital copies of D&D 5th Edition material. And the only thing you can download is your character sheet.
 

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Soeveth

First Post
@ ForgedAnvil just wanted to say thanks for the sheet, sucks about the takedown. I hope you still continue your work and host it elsewhere under a new name. If need ideas pm me.
 

smbakeresq

Explorer
I honestly have no idea. I do not know how many hours they put into it compared to the number of hours put into the actual book. The only point I was making was that it was more than none, which is the claim the person I replied to had made. That said, D&D Beyond sells their versions for ~half of the MSRP of the physical books. I know you can get the books below MSRP from some sellers (Amazon mainly), but the price of D&D Beyond vs FLGS/MSRP is roughly half.

And, I mean, you're still getting every bit of content that is in the book, so the D&D Beyond version has the production cost of the book (minus printing and shipping) plus the cost associated with creating and serving it as a database.

Personally, I have both physical books and D&D Beyond books, but no duplicates (eg physical PHB and DDB Xanathar) and I think both formats have their pluses and minuses and haven't decided which I prefer. And, again, there *are* legit criticisms of D&D Beyond, but claiming it is a PDF with no production costs (the claim I responded to) just makes the person appear as though they have 0 idea what D&D Beyond actually is.

Not really looking to debate it further as I'm neither for or against D&D Beyond, I just *am* pro-accurate claims and criticisms.

First you just said you have no idea, you don't.

Second I didn't claim what you said I claimed. It IS essentially a PDF generator, very few people will play from the app. I know they coded, but its a lot simpler then you suggest, in no way does it justify the prices they are charging, none. You paying full book price for that, plus the ability to look up things. The production cost is IMMENSELY lower, it is no where near the production costs of a print book, and since they already had all the content already designed and paid for its ridiculous to claim that it isn't just a flat out cash grab.

Third, I understand that BEHIND THE APP there was work done, sure. Just like it is when you produce a book, of course it isn't zero production time and anyone who thinks it is and that's what I claimed missed exactly what I was saying. It takes MORE time to create the content and get it into book form then it would to code it, by far. The content has already created and paid for completely, its already in DB format, it is when getting ready for production printing. Changing the form of the content is a pittance compared to creating it and getting into written form.

The idea I am conveying is that the price points are completely absurd and out of line with any other digital content, including most video games that cost millions to produce and 100,000+ hours to make. That's a 25 person production team working on nothing else for two years. Clearly Beyond didn't have that and didn't cost millions to make. Overwatch cost $15-25m but reused assets from another project (Titan) that cost about $50 million to produce, so OW cost north of $65m and 5 years of production time. It costs ~$40 to play Overwatch forever, with continuous free content updates. Beyond with all content is over $180+ with additional purchases coming in the future. If you own all the books (I do and everyone here owns some) you get nothing in Beyond for doing so.

At the very least they should include from now on a one time code with each book purchase to use the same content in Beyond. Or you can register your books to accomplish same. My fear (and it will probably be true) is that WoTC will just stop releasing book content and put it only in Beyond, which is far more profitable. IMO, Beyond is essentially a test run for this delivery system. The company in their annual report claims an "untapped mobile market." They are trying to tap it now, at what seems to me an excessive cost.
 

smbakeresq

Explorer
I don't know where you are buying your books from but you are getting ripped off. And yes, the cost for books on Beyond are insane.

He might be out of the country and/or victim of an exchange rate. I have made purchases in the USA (of various products) and then shipped to foreign countries for friends for far cheaper then they pay in their local currency.
 

smbakeresq

Explorer
While that is true, that content (which you have "bought") is only available so long as D&DB remains live. In some respects it's more like a lease.

All of that ignores the point, though, which is that no one wants to re-purchase their entire 5e library, even at a half of the inflated MSRP, just to gain access to a damned character builder that includes the classes in the books they've already bought.

The ForgedAnvil character sheet might fall under fair use, or it might not. We'll probably never know, because there's no way ENWorld and ForgedAnvil would mount a legal challenge to Hasbro/WotC and their DMCA takedown notice. The character sheet is a free, fan-made labor of love, and chances are that FA will just stay "[fornicate] this" and find other things to do with his time. Against someone making something for free, a takedown notice is an easy "I win" button that's being used against anyone who is offering a solution that competes with D&DB.


Yes. They know a DMCA is essentially a SLAPP suit, which is a Strategic Litigation Against Public Participation.


Beyond will only be good for a while, until a new edition comes out once 5E market has reached saturation point. Just like it did with 4E and the excellent CB online (and additional content) available at $79 a year IIRC. Then you will own nothing.

Like I said, I am rooting for Beyond failure as I don't think it advances the gaming industry at all, takes content and sales away from your local shop (they hate the local shops making money) and doesn't grow the industry in any way (how do you hand the app to your kids so they can get hooked.) Look at this thread, of course we are all biased as we like FA but its quite clear here and elsewhere public opinion is against Beyond.

Look at any other video game, fan made mods add content and players and are encouraged. Some are just flat out added to the game, its a net positive for everyone. WoTC has just said no, we want it all to ourselves. They just made a statement with their actions that FA is somehow cheating them out of thousands of customers at ~$400 each (see figures above.)
 


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