D&D 5E Current take on GWM/SS

CapnZapp

Legend

• Jun 14, 2015

• #1

Okay, so what's the community consensus on Great Weapon Master (and Sharpshooter) feats? The discussion is spread over too many threads, so let's summarize where we stand on this.

The premise: GWM/SS is too good compared to other fighting feats/styles; it's too easy to mitigate the -5 penalty.

Your preferred solution(s):

Rewrite the feat: replace the -5/+10 part with +1 Str/Dex
Rewrite the feat: change -5/+10 into -5/+5
Rewrite the feat: change -5/+10 into -5/+8
Rewrite the feat: you can do -5/+10, but once per turn only
The problem isn't that bad; use the feats as-is
Ban the two GWM/SS feats, but allow other feats
Play without feats (they're optional after all)
Other (please specify)

Thanks,

 

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DaveDash

Explorer

• Jun 14, 2015

• #2

My preferred solution is the following:

1. Remove the clause from Crossbow Expert that allows those players to attack from melee without disadvantage.
2. Remove the clause from Sharpshooter that allows them to ignore cover penalties to their attack roll.

These two changes don't deal with the -5/+10 mechanic directly, but they do indirectly, as they maintain weaknesses for ranged characters instead of removing them completely. It's much harder to use your -5/+10 when you're also dealing with cover, for example.

I'm ok with Great Weapon Master, personally, but I understand some people may have issue with it.

I also think that Bless is probably part of the issue. I wonder how many GWM/SS complaint threads we would have without Bless. I am considering removing it from the game, as that would also free up the pressure on Clerics (and other casters with it) to cast it, and also their concentration slot.

 

S_Dalsgaard

First Post

• Jun 14, 2015

• #3

I voted "Other" as I haven't had enough experience with high levels yet, to form my own opinion, but I have my eye on them. Reading the different threads where they come up as a problem, has made me realize, that what works for one group doesn't work for another.

Besides, none of my players (or myself for that matter) has chosen any of the troublesome feats when given the chance anyway.

 

Hussar

Legend

• Jun 14, 2015

• #4

I honestly do believe that the problem is largely dependent on the group. Groups that lack synergy specialising in making GWF/SS a priority probably won't have a problem. In order for these feats to be an issue, you have to pretty much continuously buff the weapon users. In groups that, for example, face 5-7 encounters per day, the drain on spells won't allow such constant buffing. This is largely an issue for highly specialised groups that feature small numbers of encounters per rest period.

 

C

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

• Jun 14, 2015

• #5

I found a rule I believe will reduce the most problematic use of the feat. The feat itself is not a problem spread over multiple targets. The problem occurs against single targets when an entire party is able to focus fire a single target allowing a party member to ameliorate the -5 penalty. I like martials to be able to boost damage for taking down multiple enemies faster. I don't like it for focus firing a single target. That is where the problem occurred with both feats.

I decided the best way to balance the feats was to make it usable once per target on your turn per action. This allows an Action Surging fighter to use it twice against a single target. Everyone else only once per single target. So you can't unload on a single target using multiple attacks to gain the advantages of Sharpshooter or GWM multiple times. I think this will properly balance the feats, while still allowing martials using both feats to kill multiple enemies faster.

 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way

• Jun 14, 2015

• #6

Voted "Other." Instead of "once per turn," I'd go with "once per Attack action." I see it as sort of lame that a Fighter would lose out when Action Surging, since that's *supposed* to be a damage nova anyway. It also helps simplify usage; you roll exactly the same set of dice and mods for all attack rolls (for a given char and level, of course).

 

C

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

• Jun 14, 2015

• #7

Hussar said:

I honestly do believe that the problem is largely dependent on the group. Groups that lack synergy specialising in making GWF/SS a priority probably won't have a problem. In order for these feats to be an issue, you have to pretty much continuously buff the weapon users. In groups that, for example, face 5-7 encounters per day, the drain on spells won't allow such constant buffing. This is largely an issue for highly specialised groups that feature small numbers of encounters per rest period.

Click to expand...

It's dependent upon the AC of the enemy as well. If you're fighting AC 13 or 14 enemies, there's little reason not to use it. Sharpshooter doubles the archer's damage. A normal archer may do 1d8+3 to 5 damage for 7.5 to 9.5 points. Sharpshooter adds +10 damage equaling the damage of both hits. So one hit per round will match the damage from two attacks. So this means firing with Sharpshooter is advantageous against many ACs because you only need to hit once to equal the damage of two hits and if you hit twice it's like you hit four times.

I would say the problem exists whether groups build for it or not. It may feel like someone is missing a lot with the feats, but they may not be doing less damage by missing.

A bless in 5 to 7 encounters per day is a very efficient use of spells. Maybe not as many players focus on efficient spell use, so it won't be noticeable. It doesn't take much work to take advantage of both feats. If it is not a problem for many DMs, maybe a great many groups are not taking abilities that synergize in an effective manner or a class that can cast bless.

 

Hussar

Legend

• Jun 14, 2015

• #8

If you're able to blow a slot on bless every single encounter, I'm thinking there needs to be a much greater variety in encounters. And, again this is an issue for pretty higher level groups which have so many slots.

And presumes a group with a bard or a cleric.

 

S

Staffan

Legend

• Jun 14, 2015

• #9

I'm not sure there is a problem, but then again my group is still fairly low level on account of playing other games as well and being real flaky when it comes to actually showing up to play. If there is a problem, I would expect it to lie more with Sharpshooter than GWM, because each miss "costs" more with GWM on account of the higher base damage (greatsword + great weapon weapon style + Str 20 deals about 13 points per hit, longbow + Dex 20 deals about 9.5), and the Archery style's attack bonus helps ameliorate the -5 to hit.

 

Crothian

First Post

• Jun 14, 2015

• #10

Playing 5e without feats has been a great choice for our group. It really has helped avoid these petty little problems.