D&D 5E Ideas for STR-based rogue archetype

I'm A Banana · Jun 30, 2015

Ahoyhoy, ENWorld.

I've got a Lost Mine of Phandelver game going and one of my players has made a rather unusual choice - going rogue, but basically disregarding the suggested ability score distribution. His highest scores are STR and CON (with DEX a distant third, Cha after that, Int as a dump). It's a very in-character choice (he's a dwarf of dubious morality and criminal ways, fat and angry and tough as nails).

While this will work "fine," I know we've recently had a tradition of high STR rogues at work (especially in 4e!), and 5e doesn't seem to carry this over very well. So I'm thinking of whipping up a subclass that is a more STR-focused rogue.

But for that I need ideas of what he could get!

I'm looting some of the Brutal Scoundrel ideas from 4e (the forced movement stuff seems pretty up his alley, and I like the idea of making him a little acrofatic...his good skills are Athletics, Deception via expertise, and theives' tools), but I'm open to new ideas. Mechanically, I think he might need an AC boost (perhaps a mild one, but a bit of one) to mix it up in melee more, and maybe some things to do with his Athletics skill. Also eyeing the barbarian and fighter for possible features to loot...

But I'd like your input! Especially if you've played STR-focused rogue characters in the past - what were some of your favorite elements?

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 30, 2015

The last Str focused rogue I played was a Ftr/Th in 3.5Ed. Johnny Bones had Str15, Dex15, Con13, Int12, Wis8 and Cha6, so I played him as somewhat of a hotheaded bullying thug.

With Int as a dump stat, the Dwarf might play like a dark version of Bear, my AD&D human fighter with maxed-out physical stats and 6s in all the mental ones. HE was, for all intents & purposes, a thrall to the party's sociopathic thief. He obeyed the thief's every order without question, and it got him killed (in epic fashion). This Dwarf could be similarly loyal to someone in the party.

Sacrosanct · Jun 30, 2015

I wish I could be more help, but outside of 5e, I play AD&D, and it's super easy to do a STR based rogue there, because with % based skills, that extra little bit from DEX isn't a huge impact. Especially with 2e where you choose how to raise your abilities.

Mistwell · Jun 30, 2015

Be a grappling rogue. It can work really well. Cunning Action let's you move, grapple, and then dash or disengage away with your grappled foe in tow. You can also sneak attack with a punch, some cool combinations with a shove, all sorts of good stuff. And with expertise in athletics and eventually reliable talent you could be the best grappler in the game. For more details, see this guide.

Lancelot · Jun 30, 2015

If I was doing this personally, I'd make myself a fighter. Champion subclass... or battle master if I'd like some more tactical complexity.

I'd take the Criminal background: this gives me the flavor. I'll take Stealth and Sleight of Hand (or Intimidate) as the trained skills. Negotiate with the DM for thieves tools proficiency (if they don't already get it; I forget), possibly in place of something from the fighter. Criminal contact (fence), useful starting equipment. I'd negotiate with the DM to take thieves' cant as a bonus language, maybe even swapping out dwarven (if I was born and raised in a human ghetto). Take medium or light armor to avoid disadvantage on Stealth, and select the Duelist combat style.

What do I lose by not taking rogue? Double skill proficiency and sneak attack, plus bonus actions. But I can sort-of replicate most of those with fighter builds. Action Surge has some equivalence to Cunning Action (less uses, more powerful). Expanded crit range or various maneuvers can give me similar damage to sneak attack. Second Wind has some sort of equivalence to the defensive ability where you take half damage from a visible attack (one restores HP, the other mitigates their loss). The big loss is the double proficiency bonus on expert skills, but that's manageable.

I'd actually get a huge buzz from trying to build this kind of fighter, and playing him straight-faced as a rogue. See how long it takes the other players to realize the lightly-armored, hiding-in-the-shadows, pocket-picking, backstabbing dwarven thug with a battleaxe is actually a fighter, and not a rogue.

...

...but yeah, I think you're on the right track. Loot the fighter for cool mechanics, if the player is dead-set on "a rogue is only a rogue if his class says rogue" and isn't interested in multi-classing either.

Rune · Jun 30, 2015

Because strength works just as well with finesse, so does sneak attack. Consequently, strength rogues don't lose out on much (AC primarily). They do gain something out of the trade-off; namely, stronger climbing and grappling. But also the ability to bust locks that won't be picked, and similar feats of strength.

aramis erak · Jun 30, 2015

A Strength Rogue is a beast of a melee assassin, especially if the group uses flanking or facing, so that advantage is easy to obtain... the assassin gets VERY lethal very quick that way.

kalil · Jun 30, 2015

What Lancelot said. The game fully supports this concept: Battlemaster Fighter with Criminal background. Viola. Don't get hung up on names. Use the tools available to build the characters you want.

Jamie Van Doren · Jun 30, 2015

There's a homebrew archetype (yeah, mine, ha ha) for Strength based rogues that gives Medium armor as a bonus proficiency, which get's to your AC issue.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?454746-5E-Rogue-Archetype-Ruffian

At the bottom of the post it gives a list and links for other similar archetypes. But I agree with Mistwell - grappling can work really well for a rogue.

Mishihari Lord · Jun 30, 2015

When you say "strength based rogue," I think "thug", a gang enforcer. The first thought off the top of my head is an ability called "cruel strike". The rogue doesn't just want to defeat his enemy, he wants to hurt them, and he's very good at causing pain. On a critical hit or a successful sneak attack the target must save or become incapacitated with pain. At higher levels this becomes stunned then paralyzed. I didn't try to balance this against anything so adjust as needed.