Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

doctorbadwolf · Oct 24, 2015

violent Muslim extremests re an extreme minority. and Islams history may involve conquest, but it is nowhere near as murder laden as that of Christianity. even the conquest has vastly more civilized than any armed conflict between Christians and non Christians. Or two sets of Christians for that matter. before Ottomans especially, Muslims prettymuch just did not rape murder and pillage as part of conquest, nor did they force coversion. at all.

doctorbadwolf · Oct 24, 2015

Sadras said:
I see you completely ignored the fact that we are having two different conversations.

In any event, in the instance of the West our religious authorities are generally different to our politicians. Many times (as they have in the past and even present) these two groups have colluded. In the instance of the war on Iraq and Afghan, as I have shown you, the largest sect of the Christian religion did not agree with GWB and Co's actions despite GWB invoking his deity during press conferences.
When it comes to Egypt's Governing Law, the religion of Islam plays a strong role. https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=39960. Which means that experts in the religion were most probably consulted in the formulation of the law.

That is very different to having a politician (a complete layman) invoking his deity publicly without the backing of major Christian authorities. I'm not saying that some Christian denominations did not jump onto GWB's violent campaign of greed, but that it is very different having religious dogma influence law. Furthermore the tearing apart of India was on religious reasons. The Armenian persecution was done by the Ottoman Empire which was not a secular state.

USA is a secular state. UK is a secular state - no matter what god the president or prime minister invoke publicly. The majority of the muslim nations are not secular, therefore religion plays a large role.

And again I reiterate
You are talking about the Spanish Inquisition, Egyptian Policy...
I'm discussing Christian Inquisitions, Islamic Policy...

you know that most Muslims live in Asia, right? Most Muslims live quite peacefully in democratic nations that have or have had female heads of state, etc. Iran and the Saudis dont actually represent the "Muslim world"' it turns out.
The US is secular on paper. Bush's govt used Christianity and the idea of it and Islam as existentially incompatable ideologies to justify war. that is simple fact. the opinion of the pope onthe matter is irrelevant. most Americans are protestant. Many conservatives consider catholicism an idol worshipping cult, and/or say that Catholics aren't Christians.

Islamiphobia is unjustified scumbaggery.

doctorbadwolf · Oct 25, 2015

Ovinomancer said:
It's funny how privilege theory predicts that any arguments against it from the people it declares privileged are proof that privilege theory is correct.

That is nonsense, and you probably know it.

It can seem that way, because your privilege distorts your way of looking at the world around you, but things like white and male privilege are observably, provably extant circumstances, not theories. Well, not theories in the colloquial sense. Obviously, even many things we treat as scientific fundamentals are technically theories in the jargon science usage of the term.

Maxperson · Oct 25, 2015

doctorbadwolf said:
violent Muslim extremests re an extreme minority. and Islams history may involve conquest, but it is nowhere near as murder laden as that of Christianity. even the conquest has vastly more civilized than any armed conflict between Christians and non Christians. Or two sets of Christians for that matter. before Ottomans especially, Muslims prettymuch just did not rape murder and pillage as part of conquest, nor did they force coversion. at all.

The violent Muslim extremists may be a small minority when compared to the number of Muslims in the world, but there are still huge numbers of them. What's more, they control multiple governments in the Middle East and some strong groups trying to take other such governments.

Ovinomancer · Oct 25, 2015

doctorbadwolf said:
That is nonsense, and you probably know it.

It can seem that way, because your privilege distorts your way of looking at the world around you, but things like white and male privilege are observably, provably extant circumstances, not theories. Well, not theories in the colloquial sense. Obviously, even many things we treat as scientific fundamentals are technically theories in the jargon science usage of the term.

I rest my case.

Maxperson · Oct 25, 2015

Ovinomancer said:
I rest my case.

Yeah, that was pretty bad. He also doesn't seem to understand that disparity between races does not equal privilege. There are other reasons that the disparity is present other than white people intentionally granting other white people some sort of mythical racial privilege. Culture is the culprit. There are some minority cultures who don't view school as important as it should be and they suffer economically as a result. Some minority cultured are scholastically inclined and they do very well and have great success. "White Privilege" doesn't seem to affect them.

Dannyalcatraz · Oct 25, 2015

"White Privilege" doesn't seem to affect them.

Spoken like someone who is most probably not a member of a minority. :hmm:

What "seems" and what actually is are often 2 different things.

I'm a black guy living in the southern USA. I'm a lawyer with an MBA and other letters behind my name as well. My Dad is an MD. My Mom was a HS music teacher, both of my grandmothers were elementary teachers, and both grandfathers were multiply-degreed college professors. One was even an administrator.

...and each of us has dealt with the consequences of "White Privilege" on nearly a daily basis.

And I can guarantee you that a member of almost any minority group in the USA has their own stories to tell as well.

"White Privilege" isn't about conscious discrimination or granting of favorable treatment. It is about unconscious or even institutionalized preference of Caucasians over others.

If I go into a jewelry store or car dealership where I am not known, the assumption is that I don't have the money to pay for things. Despite the fact that I'm dressed as nicely as anyone else, I am either a waste of salesmen's time or worse, a thief. (Or once, an employee of the Cadillac dealership by another customer- he handed me his keys so I could go take it into the back lot; I was there getting a Cadillac serviced myself.)

Maxperson · Oct 25, 2015

Dannyalcatraz said:
I'm a black guy living in the southern USA. I'm a lawyer with an MBA and other letters behind my name as well. My Dad is an MD. My Mom was a HS music teacher, both of my grandmothers were elementary teachers, and both grandfathers were multiply-degreed college professors. One was even an administrator.

...and each of us has dealt with the consequences of "White Privilege" on nearly a daily basis.

Such as?

Dannyalcatraz · Oct 25, 2015

Ever been told that what you're selling- something you bought for yourself- is stolen?

Ever been followed from the moment you entered a music store because they thought you were a shoplifter?

Ever been arrested coming out of a church where you had just been an altar server?

Ever been told you could not test drive a car?

Ever had someone assume you were an illegal immigrant despite being a 3rd generation American?

Ever had someone assume you were staff and not a customer?

Ever had someone ASTONISHED that you were articulate, well-informed or otherwise well-educated?

All of those happened to me or someone in my family.

Maxperson · Oct 25, 2015

Dannyalcatraz said:
Ever been told that what you're selling- something you bought for yourself- is stolen?

Every time I walk out of a store and they ask to see my items and receipt. That's why I refuse. It's an insult and an accusation.

Ever been followed from the moment you entered a music store because they thought you were a shoplifter?

Nope, but that racism and/or profiling, not white privilege.

Ever been arrested coming out of a church where you had just been an altar server?

Again, racism (assuming no valid reason for the police to be there or suspect you) is not white privilege. All police don't engage in those acts and white people are victims of those situations as well, even if not as often.

Ever been told you could not test drive a car?

Ever had someone assume you were an illegal immigrant despite being a 3rd generation American?

Same as above.

Ever had someone assume you were staff and not a customer?

Ever had someone ASTONISHED that you were articulate, well-informed or otherwise well-educated?

Yes to both of those.

All of those happened to me or someone in my family.

Racism exists. I've heard people talking about being "jewed" by someone. I once on a bus had someone come up to me and tell my that my daughter who had light hair when she was a baby had some Aryan in her. I've experienced racism as well, even though I am white. Racism is not evidence that there is some deliberate systemic privilege that is being granted to white people.

Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle

doctorbadwolf

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Heretic of The Seventh Circle

Maxperson

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Maxperson

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Dannyalcatraz

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Maxperson

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Dannyalcatraz

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Maxperson

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