Wheaton's Law, for one.
Turns out honesty isn't always the best policy
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Bedrockgames
Legend
Wait a second. If you agree that this is an immoral act, but you just want people to present it to you in a proper logical form? How about, no. If you already agree its wrong, then construct the logical argument yourself. Otherwise it is like you are asking us to entertain you. I think if we all basically agree the price increase was wrong, there isn't a need for us to comb over the logic of it.
If you are just trying to find the professional ethical guidelines on the subject, I think it is pretty basic business ethics to price things in a way that minimize adverse affect on people. If you can raise the price of a good, with minimally adverse impact on the consumers, then it isn't an issue. If you can only raise the price by adversely affecting others (or the system in this case) then I think it is a problem. Raising the price of a drug from 13.50 to 700 bucks clearly isn't ethical pricing. It has been a while since I've taken a course on business ethics or looked into the subject, but it isn't like people are just supposed to do whatever the free market allows without bringing some amount of professional ethical standards or personal morality to the table. If you think there isn't an issue, ask yourself if you could do the same thing he did. If you think it is okay for you to make a huge profit by raising the price of a life saving drug to the point that either the insurance has to cover it or people can't afford it? If that doesn't persuade you put yourself in the shoes of a patient who suddenly can't afford this drug. Do you want to rely on 1) the good will of a guy who jacked up the price to give you free pills, or 2) your insurance company to okay it? Remember if you need this drug and you don't get it, it could have serious consequences for your health, including death.
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Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
Wheaton doesn't follow his own law, largely because it's an empty platitude. It's the easier and less rigid version of the Golden Rule wherein actions are replaced by civility. It's truly indicative of these post modern times.
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Bedrockgames
Legend
I think "an empty platitude" is itself becoming an empty platitude. I don't know, don't be a dick seems like a pretty handy rule of thumb to me. I would certainly hope most people can manage to go a bit beyond that, and humans being flawed, people will falter or be inconsistent occasionally. They'll also occasionally lose temper. But I would say a world where people attempted to follow Wheatons Law would be a better one than a world where they ignore it or view it with contempt. It would be an even better world if people tried to follow the golden rule in my view. In my experience it is when I believe I can dispense with the Golden Rule that I run into problems.
I don't think you've come anywhere near demonstrating that. "Some drugs have high prices" does not equate to, "companies come up with a price the same way he did here"
Again, taking an old formulation and jacking up the price by a couple orders of magnitude is not usual. It is not what the drug business does.
That they *could* do it, in theory, isn't particularly relevant, as they haven't made a habit of it. We don't regulate away every "might be".
Who, other than yourself, has said that people are not upset at the drug industry? Failure to make a specific statement against the industry at this instant does not mean people are not mad at them. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.
And, when we look at the news, what do we find? Gee, it is plans and stories about controlling drug prices. Some (like the last few of the ones I list here) from well before this incident.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/u...osts-are-rising-as-a-campaign-issue.html?_r=0
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...paign-issue/tOlUbF6UBlAxj4ppnTgeSP/story.html
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/03/doctors-group-joins-fight-against-skyrocketing-drug-prices.html
http://www.cjr.org/the_second_opinion/what_do_you_mean_control_drug.php
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/10/17/how-to-control-cost-prescription-drugs/
So, really, I don't see your characterization of the response as an accurate characterization of what's going on. Folks are, and have been, angry at the drug industry, for a long time.
Homicidal_Squirrel
Adventurer
Let me ask you this: how do drug companies calculate the price of a drug? What variables do you think they consider when pricing a drug?
Actually, it seems to be far more common than you'd think. That's from 2011. Pharmaceutical companies jacking up the price of well established drugs seems to be what the industry does. That's not a good example for you? How about one from 2014 where a free drug went up to $80,000? So yeah, Shkreli raised the price by 4,00%-5,000%? Pffft. Total loser. That guy needs to take some lessons from Catalyst if he wants to make it in the drug industry.
Well that's kind of my point. People may have been upset, but they aren't rally showing it. All the hate is directed at Shkreli. Are people upset with the pharmaceutical industry? I'm sure there are people who are. They just aren't showing it. They should. They should be just as angry, if not more so, with the pharmaceutical industry and the politicians that have pushed for reduced regulation and laws that allow this kind of behavior.
Sure, you find stories, but where was the public outrage? I don't remember seeing this kind of hate being directed at those companies or executives. Do you?
Bedrockgames
Legend
I will say this in Squirrel's defense. He is right that this guy is a symptom of a much bigger problem that hasn't been under enough scrutiny from journalists or pressure from the public. I don't think any of that excuses Shkreli but we shouldn't dismiss examining the rest of the industry and other cases just because people want to focus their anger at one man. I think the amount of scrutiny and anger directed at him is appropriate. We should also be directing that kind of scrutiny and focus on the industry as a whole. I am in too much of a rush right now to find the exact medication or link, but I think earlier in the year there was a medication released that basically cures hepatitis C and it was outrageously expensive. I only recalled seeing one story on it and no real public outcry. Again, in a rush, maybe my info on that is wrong as I am going by memory.
This is just misdirection though Squirrel. That is like when I was a kid and got caught doing something wrong, I'd list off all the things my sister was doing wrong as well and say it was unfair. Someone else doing something wrong as well and not getting enough attention doesn't mean you deserve less focus and punishment.
This is just misdirection though Squirrel. That is like when I was a kid and got caught doing something wrong, I'd list off all the things my sister was doing wrong as well and say it was unfair. Someone else doing something wrong as well and not getting enough attention doesn't mean you deserve less focus and punishment.
tomBitonti
Adventurer
Eh, I didn't object to anyone claiming that the behavior was immoral. Although, I maintain that, in a discussion, one should be prepared to say why a thing is immoral. Or at least be up front and say that something seems immoral, but that explaining why is difficult.
I very much was objecting to the statement that the behavior was unethical. While I don't myself have a problem with the rule that you proposed, I don't think that businesses, in general, follow this rule.
To use your example as given, if the cost of a drug were to increase from $100 to $500 a dose, say, because a natural source became extinct, and the alternative simply cost that much more to make, one would be very justified to increase the price a commensurate amount, even though the increase would have a huge impact.
In fairness, I do think I'm leaving out unstated assumptions of your statements. Yet, I think I'm fair to ask for those to be clarified. Those unstated assumptions and how they relate to the problem are a big part of what there is here to discuss.
Thx!
TomB
Homicidal_Squirrel
Adventurer
You make an excellent point.
J. L. Duncan
Villager
We have a winner!
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