Captain America: Civil War

Silver Moon · Dec 4, 2015

megamania said:
Wish there was more Black Panther...... Marvel's equal to Batman.

Technically, the Marvel counterpart to Batman originally was the hero Nighthawk.

Then they later introduced MoonKnight as another Batman-like character.

Umbran · Dec 4, 2015

delericho said:
IMO, they should rock the Marvelverse. Do a proper tragedy, and end with the (permanent) death of one of our heroes.

The comic book Civil War didn't end that way, why should the movie?

Umbran · Dec 4, 2015

goldomark said:
If one should die it should be Captain America. Like he does in the civil war comics.

I don't think that's an accurate description of what happens there...

[sblock]Cap surrenders, and the Civil War ends. It is in the following storyline, "The Death of Captain America", that he's shot and killed while in custody, on his way to the courthouse.

And, of course, he's not *actually* killed. He's unstuck in time...[/sblock]

Kramodlog · Dec 4, 2015

Umbran said:
And, of course, he's not *actually* killed. He's unstuck in time...

Comic books!

megamania · Dec 4, 2015

Silver Moon said:
Technically, the Marvel counterpart to Batman originally was the hero Nighthawk.

Then they later introduced MoonKnight as another Batman-like character.

There has been many..... Night Stalker from New Warriors was a younger version of a Batman copycat.

But to me, only the Black Panther has succeeded in being a Batman level character.

delericho · Dec 4, 2015

Umbran said:
The comic book Civil War didn't end that way, why should the movie?

Because it makes for a better story.

And because, as you note, Cap does die in the comics - maybe not at the end of "Civil War" but pretty shortly thereafter and as a consequence of CW.

Tonguez · Dec 4, 2015

megamania said:
There has been many..... Night Stalker from New Warriors was a younger version of a Batman copycat.

But to me, only the Black Panther has succeeded in being a Batman level character.

well considering that Batman is based on The Shadow, Doc Savage and Zorro I'm not sure where you would draw the comparison line. Moonknight is more like the Shadow than Batman and to me Night Thrasher seemed more to be emulating Robin/Nightwing rather than Batman (although the murdere parents thing ...).

but I do agree Black panther is the only one who really stands out. plus he's a better fighter than Captain America - arguably the best fighter in the Marvelverse

Umbran · Dec 4, 2015

delericho said:
And because, as you note, Cap does die in the comics - maybe not at the end of "Civil War" but pretty shortly thereafter and as a consequence of CW.

I left that in the spoiler block for a reason, but now the cat's out of the bag, I guess.

He got shot, looked dead, and everyone presumed him dead, yes. But, in reality, the bullet he was shot with didn't kill him - it unstuck him in time in a bid by the Red Skull to take over his body and identity. Read Captain America: Reborn for the details.

Parallels to Batman's apparent death in Final Crisis, and return in Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne would not be amiss, IMHO.

delericho · Dec 4, 2015

Umbran said:
I left that in the spoiler block for a reason...

I would have thought spoilers for an eight year old comic are fair game by this point.

He got shot, looked dead, and everyone presumed him dead, yes. But, in reality, the bullet he was shot with didn't kill him - it unstuck him in time in a bid by the Red Skull to take over his body and identity. Read Captain America: Reborn for the details.

The rotating door of death is one of the great weaknesses of comic books, though understandable for commercial reasons (audiences assume Cap = Steve Rogers, so they keep characters in a weird stasis as a result). But the movies have different commercial pressures, which can work for a better story here - since Chris Evans' contract is coming to an end, there's good reason to write him out, and either have Falcon step into the role or just retire the hero. Either way, they then get to show that death actually has meaning in their stories and that they have a universe where change is possible.

Or they could just adapt the CA: Reborn storyline for their next film, and possibly even use that as their excuse for recasting the character.

Umbran · Dec 4, 2015

delericho said:
I would have thought spoilers for an eight year old comic are fair game by this point.

Given that it is related to an upcoming movie, I thought it polite to keep it a matter of choice for the individual, is all.

But the movies have different commercial pressures, which can work for a better story here - since Chris Evans' contract is coming to an end, there's good reason to write him out, and either have Falcon step into the role or just retire the hero. Either way, they then get to show that death actually has meaning in their stories and that they have a universe where change is possible.

Evan's contract is good through at least Infinity War Part 2, which is 2019 - not coming to an end for a few years yet. Plus, kill him in Civil War, and then basically write him out for the next two movies you have him contracted for, in preparation of him leaving? Spend *a third of his contract* to write him out? Does that make sense?

In addition, Evans is on record as saying, just a couple of months ago, “Listen, if Marvel wants me they got me. I’ve never had such a relationship where you have such—I mean look at my resume, I’m used to being on set being like, ‘Ah is this movie gonna be terrible?’ Marvel just can’t stop making great movies, they do it in their sleep. It’s wonderful directors and producers and actors and scripts, and it’s like a playground as an actor.”

Now, in the comics universe, eventually Steve Rogers shifts out of the Captain America role, and takes Nick Fury's seat - that may make a lot of sense as both Evans and Sam Jackson age out of their current roles.