just coming to light now from the Freedom of Information Act.
Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon...NASA Files
Part 1
[video]https://youtu.be/bjLZBrQ-Oq4[/video]
Part 2
[video]https://youtu.be/_QYRVCqwuYI[/video]
Last edited:
Why haven't aliens got in contact with us yet?
Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon...NASA Files
Part 1
[video]https://youtu.be/bjLZBrQ-Oq4[/video]
Part 2
[video]https://youtu.be/_QYRVCqwuYI[/video]
tomBitonti
Adventurer
I think those are all valid responses. Creation of van Neumann probes only seems feasible, and maybe that "seems" is much too generous.
That can be generalized to a good candidate answer to the paradox: Folks vastly underestimating the difficulty of interstellar travel.
Thx!
TomB
Out of the last 300 years where our tech level has risen rapidly, only in the last 50 (or so), have we had technology that hints at being able to find aliens in space (radio, rockets, computers, nuclear energy,etc). Might be our tech level will rise faster, so in a 100 years, we'll be pretty powerful.
but space is big. Checking our entire solar system will take time.
And assuming there's aliens just like us in every other star system, rising up in tech level about the same rate as us and at the same time as us, a chunk of our work relies on expecting somebody to be far advanced of us and making noise we can see with radio and telescopes.
Look at the problem in reverse, what kind of activity can WE do that will get the attention of aliens who are looking for life from about 4 light years away? Or 10, or 100?
We joke about radio signals from old TV shows being picked up by aliens, but really, how strong are they out 4 light years? Would somebody on Alpha Centauri even notice the signal?
but space is big. Checking our entire solar system will take time.
And assuming there's aliens just like us in every other star system, rising up in tech level about the same rate as us and at the same time as us, a chunk of our work relies on expecting somebody to be far advanced of us and making noise we can see with radio and telescopes.
Look at the problem in reverse, what kind of activity can WE do that will get the attention of aliens who are looking for life from about 4 light years away? Or 10, or 100?
We joke about radio signals from old TV shows being picked up by aliens, but really, how strong are they out 4 light years? Would somebody on Alpha Centauri even notice the signal?
delericho
Legend
My theory: the conditions that give rise to intelligent life also tend towards making that life self-destructive. We're in a race to get off-planet in sufficient numbers before we manage to nuke ourselves into extinction.
And each time a planet goes around the evolutionary merry-go-round, it becomes harder for the next intelligent species to make it off-planet, because the ones before may very well have used up some vital resource in their attempt.
And each time a planet goes around the evolutionary merry-go-round, it becomes harder for the next intelligent species to make it off-planet, because the ones before may very well have used up some vital resource in their attempt.
Coupled with a similar a misunderstanding as to what "billi-yuns and billi-yuns" of years REALLY means. Entire civilizations could rise and crumble before anyone else in the neighborhood is around to see them. They could have been here and gone already...while Earth was still molten.
In a sense, its like asking why more Princess Cruise liners haven't had collisions with pre-Columbian kayaks.
To be specific - if faster-than-light travel is impossible or highly impractical, you are talking about creating devices that last for centuries of millennia in high-vacuum, high-radiation environments likely with only whatever materials it carries on board for repairs.
The only things humans have created that last millennia are large piles of stone, and those show lots of wear and tear.
Hail, Sagan!
Jester David
Hero
I doubt there's *a* solution.
I imagine complex life is rare, intelligent life is even rarer. Intelligent life that doesn't die out or kill itself is rarer still.
To even have complex life you need to be in the golilocks zone of stars. Rare. And the planet needs to be about the right size. Rare. The orbit should be stables. The star can't pump out too much radiation, there needs to be a magnetic field to protect against the rest. But no rads means less mutation. There can't be other hostile rad sources nearby, like a neutron star or supernova.
There also needs to be a nearby super planet (like Jupiter) to serve as an asteroid sweeper or the planet will be hammers by space rocks too often for life.
However, some asteroid impacts are desirable. If things don't change on the planet, things don't evolve. They reach a happy state and changes slow down. The dinosaurs rules for tens of millions of years with limited changes because of the lack of sudden changes; the changes that did occur were slow and allowed adaptation and migration. A dramatic disaster (supervolcano, asteroid) keeps things shifting.
This "medium catastrophe" applies to us as well.
If you watch any human evolution documentaries, humans should have all died out two or three times in their early years, due to the rapid climate changes of the era. But without the pressure to adapt, we wouldn't have evolved our intelligence.
Too hostile and the life dies before it becomes intelligent, too habitable and it doesn't evolve or just doesn't spread out and remains clustered on one happy region. Without the Ice Age we wouldn't have been forced from central Africa to the south, and without a period of heavy monsoons, we wouldn't have been forced North into the Middle East (or survived the trek given the side of the Saharah at the time).
Humanity is also a very tribal species. We distinguish ourselves from our neighbours. This has really given rise to conflict, which has forced innovation and progress through technological evolution. Survival of the fittest culture. And divided cultures allow for continual progress, as when one empire stagnates or falls, the march of progress continues elsewhere (such as the Islamic empire continuing scientific advancement after Rome fell). And if empires don't fall, people are slowler to change their thinking, less open to new ideas.
A planet with fewer divides (a mono-continent) and less tribal people might develop much slower. And a more divided people might wipe themselves out.
Genius is also rate. You can count the number of true geniuses on a hand and a half. Faraday. Einstein. Newton. Tesla. Etc. Without one at the right time in the right place and given the right opportunities, we might be much less advanced. But too many advancements and technology outpaces society's ability to adapt. There's no time for refinement or practical applications of theory.
All that makes a species even reaching our level of technology super rare.
Why haven't we heard anything?
Well, we were pumping out radio signals for maybe 75 years. They were weak and sporadic initially, mostly bouncing off the atmosphere. After a few light years they'd degrade beyond legibility. (So the chances of using space travel to recover the lost episodes of Doctor Who are unlikely.) Lost in the background noise of the universe.
Now, radio is on the way out. Going wired and local short-range signals. To us, the planet is noisier than ever. To the moon, we're likely pretty quiet.
The chances of two alien races that are transmitting for those short 100-year windows at the same time within range for the signals to be detected are pretty rare.
Guessing at the future, the Singularity is a big potential killer as well. Some aliens might very well just stabilize their planet and go entirely into the Matrix, living as virtual gods.
Other aliens might be more introverted and philosophical, not caring about contact or exploration. Buddhist monk aliens.
Available minerals might affect things. Available fossil fuels certainly helped get our tech moving. Going from peat to nuclear would be a huge jump. If iron and similar hard metals are too rare, machinery is also hard.
Space is a factor as well. Space is huge. Space travel is hard. Dangerous. Getting anywhere takes hundreds of years. Presuming FTL is impossible (which is very likely). So the super rare survivors that can survive space travel, have the resources, and are interested in exploration haven't reached us yet.
I imagine complex life is rare, intelligent life is even rarer. Intelligent life that doesn't die out or kill itself is rarer still.
To even have complex life you need to be in the golilocks zone of stars. Rare. And the planet needs to be about the right size. Rare. The orbit should be stables. The star can't pump out too much radiation, there needs to be a magnetic field to protect against the rest. But no rads means less mutation. There can't be other hostile rad sources nearby, like a neutron star or supernova.
There also needs to be a nearby super planet (like Jupiter) to serve as an asteroid sweeper or the planet will be hammers by space rocks too often for life.
However, some asteroid impacts are desirable. If things don't change on the planet, things don't evolve. They reach a happy state and changes slow down. The dinosaurs rules for tens of millions of years with limited changes because of the lack of sudden changes; the changes that did occur were slow and allowed adaptation and migration. A dramatic disaster (supervolcano, asteroid) keeps things shifting.
This "medium catastrophe" applies to us as well.
If you watch any human evolution documentaries, humans should have all died out two or three times in their early years, due to the rapid climate changes of the era. But without the pressure to adapt, we wouldn't have evolved our intelligence.
Too hostile and the life dies before it becomes intelligent, too habitable and it doesn't evolve or just doesn't spread out and remains clustered on one happy region. Without the Ice Age we wouldn't have been forced from central Africa to the south, and without a period of heavy monsoons, we wouldn't have been forced North into the Middle East (or survived the trek given the side of the Saharah at the time).
Humanity is also a very tribal species. We distinguish ourselves from our neighbours. This has really given rise to conflict, which has forced innovation and progress through technological evolution. Survival of the fittest culture. And divided cultures allow for continual progress, as when one empire stagnates or falls, the march of progress continues elsewhere (such as the Islamic empire continuing scientific advancement after Rome fell). And if empires don't fall, people are slowler to change their thinking, less open to new ideas.
A planet with fewer divides (a mono-continent) and less tribal people might develop much slower. And a more divided people might wipe themselves out.
Genius is also rate. You can count the number of true geniuses on a hand and a half. Faraday. Einstein. Newton. Tesla. Etc. Without one at the right time in the right place and given the right opportunities, we might be much less advanced. But too many advancements and technology outpaces society's ability to adapt. There's no time for refinement or practical applications of theory.
All that makes a species even reaching our level of technology super rare.
Why haven't we heard anything?
Well, we were pumping out radio signals for maybe 75 years. They were weak and sporadic initially, mostly bouncing off the atmosphere. After a few light years they'd degrade beyond legibility. (So the chances of using space travel to recover the lost episodes of Doctor Who are unlikely.) Lost in the background noise of the universe.
Now, radio is on the way out. Going wired and local short-range signals. To us, the planet is noisier than ever. To the moon, we're likely pretty quiet.
The chances of two alien races that are transmitting for those short 100-year windows at the same time within range for the signals to be detected are pretty rare.
Guessing at the future, the Singularity is a big potential killer as well. Some aliens might very well just stabilize their planet and go entirely into the Matrix, living as virtual gods.
Other aliens might be more introverted and philosophical, not caring about contact or exploration. Buddhist monk aliens.
Available minerals might affect things. Available fossil fuels certainly helped get our tech moving. Going from peat to nuclear would be a huge jump. If iron and similar hard metals are too rare, machinery is also hard.
Space is a factor as well. Space is huge. Space travel is hard. Dangerous. Getting anywhere takes hundreds of years. Presuming FTL is impossible (which is very likely). So the super rare survivors that can survive space travel, have the resources, and are interested in exploration haven't reached us yet.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
It may be that the real interstellar intelligence test is being able to make contact with another star system. We haven't passed the test yet. Maybe FTL is possible but you have to be really clever to figure it out.
This seems to be a common sci-fi trope -- like humans in Star Trek weren't worth noticing until they figure out warp drive.
This seems to be a common sci-fi trope -- like humans in Star Trek weren't worth noticing until they figure out warp drive.
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