D&D 5E Making Chase Rules... that actually do what they're supposed to!

I've been thinking about my experience with 5th edition DMG's chase rules, and I think I've put my finger on why they're not quite satisfying.

When I run a chase, I want it to feel fast-paced, cinematic, and dynamic both to the players and to myself. This is nicely articulated at the DnD Hackers Guild blog. When I run chases using the 5e DMG rules, they are at best moderately-paced, only moderately-dynamic, and any cinematic flair comes from being experienced gamers and NOT the rules. They're not terrible, but they're not great.

I'll refer to this Arwen vs. Nazgul chase scene as a simple point of reference for my design goals:

[YouTube]
OBSERVATIONS
The chase can be roughly divided into five 00:30 second segments, though most of the actual chase is about 2:00 minutes long. The last 00:30 seconds or so are the resolution of the end of the chase with the river spirits wiping out the Nazgul.

• For the first 30 seconds (a transition from hills to woodland) there's no clear line of sight between Arwen and the Nazgul. At best there is something like 3/4 cover. This emphasizes the idea that in D&D chases you don't want a clear line of sight too early on, both to preserve some of the mystique of the chase and also to limit casters from unloading hold person type magic too early.
• Arwen is proactive, dodging a tree branch hazard, pushing her horse through a straightaway, and weaving through trees.
• There are environmental changes happening, from hills to dense woodland to an open straightaway, to the river.
• The riverbank acts as a safe destination, so once Arwen reaches that she and Frodo are effectively safe.

THEORY

Fast-paced: I don't want to design chase complications tables for each chase environment...just like I don't want to create a new monster stat block for every combat I run. Likewise, I don't want to add additional unnecessary things to track (e.g. # of Dashes used, like in the DMG chase rules). I also don't want a glut of rules that might slow down play. The DMG chase rules have been adequate in this regard, but they definitely could use some speeding up. I'm thinking side-initiative & mostly tracking a single gap between pursuer/prey (rather than a bunch of individual creature locations) will be swifter.

Cinematic: If you watch the Arwen vs. Nazgul chase, it becomes clear that there's several moments of close conflict — a wraith reaches for Frodo, a rider tries to box Arwen in, etc. However, the DMG chase rules are set up on more of a linear track — to reach melee range you need to first reduce the gap between prey/pursuer to 0, and then you switch to combat mode. I'm thinking of chase events which provide moments of close conflict, drawing pursuer/prey into brief melee before terrain and circumstance drive them back into more clearly articulated pursuit and evasion roles

Dynamic: I want a chase to throw curveballs for both myself and the players. And I especially want the players to have meaningful decisions to make that influence the outcome of the chase. While the DMG chase rules do a decent job of throwing environmental curveballs/complications, they don't provide much in the way of meaningful decisions. After all, risking exhaustion to "excessively" Dash (level one: disadvantage to all checks, level two: half speed) is almost never worth it in a chase where ability checks and speed are king. Instead, I'm thinking of borrowing the James Bond 007 RPG chase Difficulty bidding process, and supplementing it with a few chase actions to take on lesser or greater risk.

So, that's my theoretical framework.

PRACTICE
How does this look in practice? I've attached this as a pretty PDF (from an upcoming adventure I'm writing) which I find easier to read, but here is my basic implementation:

• The DM determines the starting gap and other conditions of the chase.
• The chase should last between 3 to 6 rounds, which may be anywhere from a normal combat round to 20 minutes in length. It depends on the scale of the chase.
• “Initiative” is side-based and determined by bidding on Difficulty of the “chase check.”
• At the start of each turn, each side makes a special group ability check (a “chase check”) according to the nature of the chase.
• One creature representing each side of the chase then rolls 1d12 on the Chase Events table, which may affect just that creature, all creatures on its side, or all creatures in the chase depending on the results. On the players’ side, a different PC should handle this roll each round.
• Creatures in the chase may opt to take actions or try unusual strategies, which may change their individual position.
• This process repeats each round until the chase’s end conditions are met, typically: finishing all rounds of the chase, the pursuers reduce the gap to 0, or the prey doubles the starting gap.

Starting the Chase
Determine who is on which side of the chase. Generally, creatures are clumped together on their side, but a creature whose speed is different from others on its side by 10 or more, certain complications, and outlandish strategies may involve a creature being tracked separate from the rest of its side.
A good starting gap is twice the speed of most creatures in the chase (e.g. a mounted chase might start with pursuers and prey 120 ft. apart).
The DM determines other conditions of the chase, like visibility, cover, and line of sight. Especially if there are spellcasters with crippling spells like hold person or sleep, consider placing terrain that limits line of sight.
The DM determines how long the chase lasts. A good length is one round per PC, though the DM can also use a more simulationist model or other end game scenarios (see “Ending the Chase”).

Chase Checks
Each round, both sides makes a chase check, a group ability check that does not require creatures on the same side to use the same ability or skill. For example, during a foot chase through the woods, one creature might make a Strength (Athletics) check, while another makes a Wisdom (Survival) check to quickly navigate the path of least resistance. Which checks are permissible are left to the DM, though this is a great occasion to say “yes” to the players.
The Difficulty of this check begins at a value determined by the DM (e.g. 12), and is then increased via a bidding process by both sides. The side to bid the highest Difficulty chooses whether to go first or last.
If at least half the group succeeds, then that side may widen or close the gap by a number of feet equal to d10 per 10 feet of movement (rounding up). For example, a speed 25 halfling would 3d10 feet. Thus, it is possible for both pursuers and prey to succeed the chase check, causing the gap to widen and close on the same round.

Ending the Chase
In the case of a chase to a safe haven of some kind, the chase ends when either the pursuers reduce the gap to 0, or the prey reach the safe haven by keeping the gap above 0 for the entire chase.
In the case of a race to a finish line, the race ends after the last round. However, who is pursuer and who is prey may change as the chasers jockey for the lead position.
In the case of a chase with no specific end point, instead of a set number of rounds, the chase ends when either the pursuers reduce the gap to 0, or the prey increases the gap to twice what it started at. Alternately, the chase might end if the prey deceive or hide from the pursuers.
Depending on how a chase ends, it could represent the prey being driven into a dead-end.

Actions During a Chase
During a chase, most creatures focus entirely on evasion or pursuit. However, a creature moving independently (i.e. not on the same horse or vehicle as another) may forgo taking the Dash action, in which case its position in the chase drops by an amount equal to its speed (or the speed of its mount). The creature is then free to take any action it pleases, such as making a ranged attack if it has line of sight.

Getting a Clear Shot
In situations where line of sight is in doubt, a Wisdom (Perception) check may be called for to determine whether a creature can get enough sustained line of sight to get a clear shot. This check should begin very hard (DC 25) or nearly impossible (DC 30), but each round the chase progresses the DC shoulder lower by 5, representing creatures looking for an opening to take a shot or cast a spell.

Additionally, there are a few special actions unique to chases: Creating a Complication, Lookout, Reckless Sprint.

Creating a Complication
Creatures in a chase may be able to create a hazard or obstacle to afflict the opposite side as an action. The DM should adjudicate such situations on a case-by-case basis.

Lookout
During a chase, creatures are assumed to be moving at a fast travel pace (roughly 400 feet per minute; -5 passive Perception). Additionally, in most chase scenarios opportunity attacks are not possible due to the focus required.
By taking the lookout action, the creature does not suffer this penalty to passive Perception and may take opportunity attacks as normal. In addition, the DM should provide forewarning of the next upcoming complication or chase event.

Reckless Sprint
Pushing itself (or its mount or vehicle) to the limit, the creature’s gap closes or widens twice what it otherwise would that round. However, it suffers disadvantage on any ability checks to navigate chase events. At the end of the round, the creature must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or accrue a level of exhaustion.

Chase Events (d12)
The following chase events are meant to be generic enough that the DM can adapt them to any given terrain, improvising on the fly. Of course, if the DM prefers, he or she can prepare each category of event for a given terrain/scenario in advance...but there's nothing requiring this. These chase events are inspired by watching cinematic chases (probably too many Jason Statham movies), the Top Secret RPG chase rules, several blogs, and the 5e DMG chase complications.

1 Convoluted Terrain. Neither side has line of sight to the other this round, and the prey may attempt a group Dexterity (Stealth) check to hide from the pursuers, who make a group Wisdom (Perception) check. If the prey succeed, the chase ends as they can’t be found. If the pursuers succeed, reduce the gap to equal to the average speed of the chasers.
2 Crowd/Herd. A group of creatures impedes the progress of that side. One or more characters on that side may attempt to influence the group to assist them (DM discretion), or clear a path, on a DC 13 check. On a failed check, the opposing side rolls to close or widen the gap.
3 Difficult Terrain. Creatures (determined by the DM’s judgment) face difficult terrain, moving at half speed unless they have a means to circumvent or avoid the difficult terrain. The difficult terrain lasts the entire round.
4 Dilemma. The creature who rolled this result, and possibly others on its side, faces a dilemma: if they don’t alter course to a harder path, something bad happens (e.g. innocents hurt, mounts or vehicles damaged, supplies lost, they’re spotted by other enemies). This harder path might increase the DC of all checks by 2, require intermittent Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks to avoid falling, prevent line of sight, or change the chase’s length.
5 Hazard. Some kind of hazard suiting the terrain requires all creatures on both sides to make a saving throw determined by the DM. A result of less than 10 results in “dangerous” damage, a result of 10-14 results in “setback” damage, and a result of 15 or higher indicates no damage. Refer to the Damage Severity and Level table in the DMG pg. 249.
6 Obstacle. A physical obstacle suiting the terrain bars passage. Each creature on that side must make a DC 13 Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) group check to surmount the obstacle. If the group check fails, the opposing side rolls to close or widen the gap.
7 Opportunity. The creature who rolled this result can take an extra action that turn, though the DM should require the decision on how to use the action be made quickly. If the action is used to make a ranged attack, consider lowering the DC of the Wisdom (Perception) check required to get a clear shot.
8 Paths Converge. The creature who rolled this result and one creature on the opposing side of the DM’s choice cross paths momentarily, coming into melee range. They can each make an attack against one another, before they are forced to resume their former gap by circumstance and terrain.
9 Risky Shortcut. A shortcut presents itself to the creature that rolled this result. It can pursue the shortcut alone or convince its side to follow. The creature makes a DC 13 ability check of the DM’s choice to avoid whatever risk is associated with the shortcut. If the creature succeeds, it rolls twice to widen or close the gap. If it fails, however, the creature drops out of the chase.
10 Separated. The creature who rolled this result is somehow separated from the rest of its side. If prey, it begins tracking its gap from any pursuers breaking off to pursue it separately from the main chase. It must make a DC 10 Wisdom check to reunite with the rest of its side next round, otherwise it is on its own for the rest of the chase. If a pursuer, it must make a DC 10 Wisdom check or become lost and drop out of the chase.
11 Straightaway. Each creature in the chase can opt to push itself, closing or widening the gap by an amount equal to its speed. A creature pushing itself must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw; on a failure it accures a level of exhaustion. Additionally, both sides have unobstructed line of sight to one another this round.
12 Twist. The basic conditions of the chase change. This may include adding creatures on either side (or perhaps adding a third side), swapping who is pursuer and prey, altering the end conditions of the chase, changing what will happen when the chase ends, or radically changing the environment, visibility, cover or line of sight.

I think I like this, but for some reason I'm having trouble getting my mind around how some of the details would play out. I don't suppose you'd be willing to present an example of play or two? (I know it's a lot of writing to do those properly, given the multiple steps on possibilities, so no worries if you'd prefer not to.)

For a start I would simply change the rule on running. Instead of a basic doubling of speed, on Dash, I'd make base speed plus a random die roll. Maybe a d6 or d8. You could increase the die for running feats and you could make advantage and disadvantage rules for circumstances occurring during a chase.

Rough Examples:

Dash Action

When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for your current turn. The increase equals the number rolled on your Agility Die plus your Dexterity Modifier.

Create Obstacle

You create an obstacle to baffle a pursuer. You must roll an ability check versus a DC set by the DM. Depending on the nature of the obstacle the purser may need make an Ability Save to negotiate the obstacle or fall prone, or may simply take disadvantage on their Agility Die.

Risky Dash

You Dash over difficult terrain. You may Dash with advantage but must make an Ability Save or either fall prone or lose any speed increase granted by the Dash Action.

Sprinter Feat

Your Agility Die is increased from a d6 to a d8.


Just a few ideas.

I guess my confusion is why the complications aren't enough to deal with groups either catching up or falling behind? Why is a separate check needed for the general chase?

For example if the chasers have more stamina than the chasee then the straightaway is going to require an extraordinary effort of constitution on behalf of the chasee's mount to maintain a lead? Fail that and the chasers gain some distance. And similarly the chasers would probably want to push their mounts hard in the straightaway requiring a constitution check for them too in order to close the distance?

Mouseferatu said:

I think I like this, but for some reason I'm having trouble getting my mind around how some of the details would play out. I don't suppose you'd be willing to present an example of play or two? (I know it's a lot of writing to do those properly, given the multiple steps on possibilities, so no worries if you'd prefer not to.)

Click to expand...

I haven't had a chance to try the rules out with my gaming group yet (we're on a bit of a hiatus).

So all I can offer is an imaginary example of play...

Sleigh Chase through the Howling Hills
The PCs have accepted employment by the guilt-ridden nervous Barovian merchant Vitomir to protect him and his sleighs from the Beast which stalks him. They know from past investigation that the Beast is deadly and impervious to common weapons (and being low level the PCs aren't yet stocked with magic and silver weapons). Their job is to escort the merchant from Volchykrov Manor to Thousandfurs Bridge on the Ivlis River — there the terrain changes from snow/ice on the ground to regular earth, and a troupe of guards and carriages await the merchant. It's about a 2.5-mile (4 km) journey (roughly 1 hour at a fast pace) along Old Svalich Road through wooded foothills swarming with wolves controlled by the Beast.

Characters:
Dr. Lichtenstein, human cleric
Gwyneth, half-elf sorcerer
Peabody, halfling rogue
Claviger, human fighter

Setup: As the DM, I decide that I want the first 20 minutes of the sleigh ride to play out as mounting tension, an opportunity to chat with the NPC Vitomir, maybe let the players discuss some things, and introduce several signs that all is not right. Wolves howling, mists growing thick, Vitomir experiencing paranoia, indistinct shapes rushing through the trees alongside the PCs. I want this chase to sort of sneak up on them, and then BAM! A pack of wolves is 60 feet behind their sleighs, and no sign of the Beast yet. The chase is on!

Round 1
I've divided the chase into 4 rounds of 10 minutes each. During this round, I'm keeping my map in the back of my mind, and I know there will be a transition from lowland light woods to an ascent into the Howling Hills.

DM: A large pack of wolves is moving through the woods at the edges of Old Svalich Road, their howls spurring the terrified horses hitched to your sleighs.Most of the wolves are about 60 feet back, but you don't have clear line of sight to them through the trees and morning mists, so it's hard to get an accurate count of just how many are there. Judging by their howling seeming to come from multiple directions at once, dozens maybe.

Claviger: I'm just a passenger on this sleigh that Peabody is manning. Can I get a clear shot with my longbow?

Dr. Lichtenstein: Do we really think we can win this fight? Discretion may be the better part of valor here.

Gwyneth: Besides, our priority is protecting this merchant, right? Unless our priorities have changed?

Peabody: in a hopeful tone Robbery?

DM: Well, maybe you can do a bit of all that. So, Peabody is manning the sled with Claviger? And Vitomir's nervous servant is manning the sleigh with Vitomir, Gwyneth, and the Dr. Lichtenstein? Everyone nods. So, how much do you want to push your speed right now? The current DC for any chase checks is pretty easy, let's say 10. The more you're willing to risk compared to this pack of wolves pursuing you, the more likely it is your side can go first in the initiative (or you could go last if you prefer to see what the wolves are up to).

Dr. Lichtenstein: So we bid up the Difficulty, and whoever bids highest — us or the wolves — decides which side goes first? The DM nods. Well, what about the wolves? What are they bidding?

DM The wolves are moving fast and efficiently. They seem far more brazen than normal wolves, but they're still wary of the large sleighs. They're pushing the DC to 12.

Everyone: Let's go first!

Peabody: Ok, then I'm pushing this sleigh to DC 13, savoring the cool wind zipping across my face, and cracking my whip with a command in Halfling to go faster. "Oat and honey at the end, my pretties!" I'm not going crazy with it...not yet at least. Hey, what's the speed of a sleigh anyhow?

DM: 60 feet, same as the riding horses drawing it. Ok, you guys are going to make a group chase check. This is like other group checks you've made where you need 2 or more of your 4-person party to succeed, except you don't need to use the same ability or skill.

Gwyneth: So it's kind of like a mini 4e skill challenge?

DM: Kinda sorta.

Gwyneth: Vitomir's servant is piloting the sleigh I'm in, right? So, I want to cast a spell on the servant so he doesn't freak out during this chase. Sort of calm him and influence his piloting behind-the-scenes. Would casting friends work?

DM: I like the out-of-the box-thinking! Sure, then make a DC 13 Charisma (Persuasion) check with advantage.

Gwyneth: 19 and 19. Hah! "Do not fear the wolves or howling mists, my friend. Keep your eye toward the old road, and let us take down these wolves. None of us die today."

Dr. Lichtenstein: Nice. Can I use my Haunted One background to convince Vitomir not to be a totally useless fop? I want him to act as my squire during the chase, essentially, loading my crossbow and getting stuff out of my pack.

DM: Sure, but how is that helping your side outmaneuver or move faster than the wolves? It sort of seems independent from the group chase check.

Dr. Lichtenstein: Ah, can I convince Vitomir to offload some unnecessary cargo as part of my chat with him? Lighten our load? Hmm, that'll probably be a check, won't it? Can I intimidate him? The DM nods. 16! "Let me help you unburden that guilty conscience, Vitomir. You're going to follow my lead if you hope to get through this alive, understand? Now, you packed enough for a small army. Throw off anything that isn't essential!"

DM: "But the furs and the vodka... How am I to pay you without my trade goods?"

Dr. Lichtenstein: "How are you going to pay us if you're dead? Hurry!"

DM: Ok, Vitomir is off-loading several bundles of fur with a mix of terror at the wolves and at losing his money in his eyes.

Claviger: Wait, he can unload a bunch of lashed down bundles in a round?

DM: Remember, these are 10 MINUTE chase rounds, not normal combat rounds. The scale of the action is different.

Claviger: Ah, gotcha, I forgot. So, I should be able to make a bunch of attacks, right?

DM: No, for a couple reasons. First, just like in regular combat there are assumed to be a series of attacks and feints that are happening without dice being rolled for them, same here, only at a different time scale. Second, you don't have clear line of sight due to the nature of the chase. Third, just because you're a passenger doesn't mean you're not having to shift your weight, brace when when the sleigh takes a sharp turn or jump, swivel about, and so forth.

Claviger: Ok, ok. It just is different than what I'm used to.

Peabody: I'm remembering where those bundles got ditched...for future reference. Ok, I'm piloting the other sleigh. So, what check does one make to pilot a sleigh? Would Dexterity applying my land vehicles proficiency work? The DM nods. 11. Aargh.

Claviger: Well, we already have the two successes needed to succeed on the group check, right? I'm taking out my longbow and I want to shoot one of these wolves!

DM: If you're trying to get a clear shot through the woods, make a Wisdom (Perception) check. The DM knows this check is DC 25, but doesn't tell the player the Difficulty. Preserving a bit of the mystique of the chase is important. After all, a chase is supposed to surprise the players and the DM.

Claviger: 8. Dang it. "Give me a clear shot, you furry little bastards," I growl under my breath, nocking an arrow, waiting.

DM: Ok, you guys can widen the gap between you and the wolves by d10 for every 10 feet of speed.

Claviger: That's 6d10, right? 48. So, we're 108 feet ahead of the wolves, now?

DM: Yep! Mr. Peabody, do you want to start off rolling for Chase Events for the party? It's a d12 roll.

Peabody: Sure! 9.



DM: Consults Chase Events table, seeing a 9 means "Risky Shortcut." Ok, the sleigh Claviger and Peabody are in is slightly trailing the main sleigh and to the left side of the road. As the sleighs' runners begin to pick up speed and the horses froth at the mouth, the two of you notice a side trail breaking off to the left, a straight shot through the woods that circumvents the sweeping bend in the road ahead. It's a steeper route compared to the gentle incline of the bend, but with enough speed could put you ahead even further.

Peabody: Let's do it!

Claviger: Wait, we want to be between the merchant and the wolves, don't we? I mean, we don't want Vitomir's sleigh to be in the rear, right?

Peabody: crestfallen Yeah...you're right. pause I'mma gonna do it anyhow!

Claviger: "Damn halflings!"

DM: Ok, the runners of your sleigh grind against rocks and roots hidden under the packed snow and thin branches whip overhead, er, over Claviger's head. Peabody, make a DC 13 Wisdom (Animal Handling) check to push the horses up the slope.

Peabody: Aaaand....2! With a natural 1! I'm a Lucky halfling! Rerolling...7. Or not-so-lucky.

DM: Without enough momentum, the runners of your sleigh grind hard on the embankment, the horses straining in the harnesses to pull the sleigh up the steep slope. Of all the places for the sleigh to come to a grinding halt, a steep slope on a narrow path through the trees has got to be the worst. The horses aren't able to pull the sleigh any further, its runners wedged between two trees. You're stuck.

Claviger: "I told you not to do it! Quick, unhitch the horses and I'll try to hold the wolves off."

Gwyneth: Wait, are they out of the chase entirely? Crap!

DM: For now. They're going to get overrun by wolves if they don't get moving. Makes a single Athletics check for all the wolves' chase check. 8. Fails. Then the DM rolls Chase Events for the wolves, and rolls a 9, just like Peabody. Scampering and tripping up the snowy embankment, the wolves are losing ground. While the main mass of the pack continues pursuing Vitomir's sleigh, 108 feet apart, a smaller pack of wolves breaks off to follow Peabody and Claviger's sleigh. Makes an Athletics check for the smaller pack trying to ascend the risky shortcut slope. 7. Fails. However, the weight of the passing sleigh has disturbed the snowpack of the slope, and abruptly the snow gives way into a small avalanche, carrying half of the small pack down the hillside, their yelps and howls fading into the mists. The sundered snow shelf crumbles at the heels of 4 wolves which are closing fast on Peabody and Claviger. If Peabody and Claviger remain stationary, the wolves will close 80 feet toward you next round.

Peabody: "Well, I did like you said, Claviger. We're in the rear for sure now."

Round 2
During this round, I plan on having the Beast enter the chase, lurking ahead of the lead sleigh. It's going to do a dramatic leaping attack on the sleigh itself, and regardless of whether it hits or misses, it's going to slip down the slope, picking up the chase 80 feet behind the lead sleigh.

DM: Ok, that first round I made it simple by assuming you guys were doing the default chase action, which is effectively a Dash. However, now that you've got a feel for how this works, you can choose from other actions instead of Dash if you wish. This includes all the actions in the PHB and a few new ones like Create a Complication, Lookout, or Reckless Sprint. The wolves are maintaining pursuit at DC 13.

Gwyneth: "Should we turn back for them?"

DM: Vitomir seems horrified at that idea, "Are you out of your mind? Look how many wolves there are!" He's ordering his man piloting the sleigh to go faster, up to DC 14.

Gwyneth: Hmm. I still have my friends in effect with the sleigh driver, right?

DM: These are 10 minute rounds, remember? So technically your friends would end, but since it's cantrip there's nothing stopping you from just casting it again.

Gwyneth: Can I suggest that the sleigh driver just maintain this pace, at DC 13? And I want to encourage him to turn back for our friends. "If you had friends, Vitomir, you'd know we can't leave them behind," I sneer at him derisively.

DM: So, you and the wolves are maintaining the same level of risk. That's not in the rules... Bad Quickleaf! ...but I'm going to rule it means everything this round is happening simultaneously. As you and Vitomir are arguing about what to do next, suddenly a shape looms in the mists on a rocky outcropping above — a massive dire wolf with amber eyes burning like balefires. Vitomir shrieks in terror. "The Beast!" The sleigh driver reflexively starts to pull on the reins in panic, but Gwyneth's soothing hand on his shoulder keeps him from losing his morale. The giant wolf lunges off the rock, claws scraping across the goods bundled on the back of the sleigh and jaws snapping hungrily.

Peabody: Suddenly, I'm glad we fell back...

Claviger: Hey, you and me have still got 4 wolves to contend with.

DM: Rolls the Beast's attack. 15. Hits. Deals 16 damage to the sleigh. The Beast tears through the back of the sleigh, spilling furs, packages, and bottles of vodka everywhere, and ripping apart a chunk of the wooden frame. However, the frame splinters in its jaws and the Beast goes skidding along the slippery slope behind your sleigh, finally arresting itself 80 feet behind you before joining in the chase.


WORK-IN-PROGRESS

robus said:

I guess my confusion is why the complications aren't enough to deal with groups either catching up or falling behind? Why is a separate check needed for the general chase?

Click to expand...

That would be true if the primary purpose of all the complications (chase events) were to widen/close the gap between pursuers and prey.

However, you'll see that's not the case.

I choose the name "chase events" because I specifically wanted to clue the reader into the fact that these are not just obstacles to slow you down. Rather, they're ALL the things that happen in a cinematic chase.

Close brushes between pursuer and prey that allow for limited conflict.
Changing conditions of the chase.
Innocent bystanders put in danger.
A window of opportunity to take a shot.

And so on.

Instead of thinking of Chase Events as complications like the DMG or Pathfinder, think of them as a Chase Random Encounter Table with more than just monsters.

The group "chase check" is the primary determinant of how much the gap widens/closes. This is where the PCs proactively decide "how crazy are we going to get? how much are we going to risk?"

A FEW of the results on the chase events table can then further modify this, but when those obstacles/complications come up, the PCs don't get to decide how much risk they're taking. The complication decides that. The PCs react.

RHGreen said:

For a start I would simply change the rule on running. Instead of a basic doubling of speed, on Dash, I'd make base speed plus a random die roll. Maybe a d6 or d8. You could increase the die for running feats and you could make advantage and disadvantage rules for circumstances occurring during a chase.

Click to expand...

Unlike the DMG chase rules which grant you X # of dashes before risking exhaustion, the baseline assumption of these rules is that if you're in a chase you're pretty much ALWAYS dashing.

That's the sort of chase these rules are about. Fast, dynamic, cinematic.

The amount the gap is widened/reduced already has Dash baked into it.

If a PC decides NOT to Dash (so they can take a different action), that PC falls back an amount equal to their speed.

Quickleaf said:

snip

Chase Checks
Each round, both sides makes a chase check, a group ability check that does not require creatures on the same side to use the same ability or skill. For example, during a foot chase through the woods, one creature might make a Strength (Athletics) check, while another makes a Wisdom (Survival) check to quickly navigate the path of least resistance. Which checks are permissible are left to the DM, though this is a great occasion to say “yes” to the players.
The Difficulty of this check begins at a value determined by the DM (e.g. 12), and is then increased via a bidding process by both sides. The side to bid the highest Difficulty chooses whether to go first or last.
If at least half the group succeeds, then that side may widen or close the gap by a number of feet equal to d10 per 10 feet of movement (rounding up). For example, a speed 25 halfling would 3d10 feet. Thus, it is possible for both pursuers and prey to succeed the chase check, causing the gap to widen and close on the same round.

snip

Click to expand...

Love the idea of these..! I ran a chase a couple weeks ago with a modified version of the DMG rules, and it just wasn't as cool as I'd hoped.

The only problem I have is that I don't care for the group checks. I like the idea of each PC deciding on how much they want to invest in the chase. Not to mention that I have a heavily armored paladin and a nimble footed rogue in my Party. I just can't wrap my head around them both keeping pace with each other...

Definitely going to try these out though!!

Syntallah said:

Love the idea of these..! I ran a chase a couple weeks ago with a modified version of the DMG rules, and it just wasn't as cool as I'd hoped.

The only problem I have is that I don't care for the group checks. I like the idea of each PC deciding on how much they want to invest in the chase. Not to mention that I have a heavily armored paladin and a nimble footed rogue in my Party. I just can't wrap my head around them both keeping pace with each other...

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Well, to be fair, if we're discussing movement on foot, in 5th edition your nimble footed rogue and your paladin in plate armor probably both have a speed of 30 (unless the paladin's STR < 15, which is unlikely). So I think your objection really is more about how armor is treated in 5e? I mean, if there were a wood elf (speed 35) or a character with the Mobility feat (+10 speed), then that character would wide/shorten the chase gap by 4d10, putting them on their own "track."

Disclaimer: If you were running a "race" scenario instead of a "chase", then yeah, you'd want to use individual checks and position tracking.

Definitely going to try these out though!!

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Look forward to hearing how they work in actual play.

Personally, I found the default assumption of tracking a gap for each PC to be often unnecessary and cumbersome, especially when you start having multiple enemy groups in the chase.

Think a moment about what keeping track of individual "chase gaps" actually does in a DMG chase...

(1) In the case of the PCs as pursuers, it determines who closes to melee combat first with the fleeing monster. Maybe they'll need to fight alone for a round or two before the other PCs arrive to back them up. And if there's no combat involved (e.g. pinning down a pickpocket), then it just determines which PC tackles the monster first...and then everyone else shows up.

(2) In the case of the PCs as prey, it determines who crosses the "finish line" first, and potentially who gets caught alone by the monster. Among most players I've known, if a PC gets caught the others are likely to shift into rescue mode, and then it usually becomes a combat. Nothing wrong with that scenario, necessarily, only with 4-6 players rolling independently it's almost guaranteed at least one will fall behind.

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My "group check" chase rules approach these two scenarios a bit differently (at least ideally, they're still a work-in-progress)...

(1) With PCs as pursuers, it's just not that important who reaches the fleeing monster first. This is especially true because these chase rules make possible a longer time scale than 6-second combat rounds. If combat is resulting, and you have, for example, 2 PCs several minutes behind the rest of the party, then effectively those 2 PCs are never going to actually be in the combat — basically, they were dropped from the chase.

(2) With PCs as prey, doing a group check minimizes situations where you have one PC facing the pursuing monster alone...and then the other players go "crap, time to rescue!" Instead, the chase events provide ways the PCs (and the monsters) might drop out of the race. What that means is left up to the DM. It doesn't need to be capture however. The chase continues, but they're no longer in it. Maybe they slid down an embankment and fell into an icy cavern? Maybe a small group breaks off from the main monsters to engage them?

[MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION]: Have you, by any chance, had a look at the alternate chase rules in the AL module "Cloaks and Shadows"? I adapted them for a chase scene where the objective was to catch a golden-fleeced ram. I found them to be a significant improvement over the rules in the DMG.

That being said, since you've already put a lot of work into your own rules, you may not want to just abandon them. Still, I'd say take a look anyway. You might find something of use there.