D&D 5E Making Chase Rules... that actually do what they're supposed to!

[Psikerlord#]

Each symbol on the die represents a degree of success. When you roll a handful of them, you count up how many successes you have and how many failures and how many "super successes" and how many "terrible failures" you have to determine a more cinematic outcome than a statistical one.

I didn't know about these dice, very interesting indeed!

 

[Psikerlord#]

Absolutely! Your work inspired my own, after all Great blog, btw, I'll be following.

I suspect the reckless sprint option might be a bit strong, but I guess it depends on starting distances, and there is a lot of variability in the chase checks and events.
Reckless Sprint may be strong, yeah, I need to playtest it. The built-in variability might make it a non-issue.


It's from the James Bond 007 RPG. Basically, if you're a pursuer, you might want the prey to go first so you can get a feel for what obstacles lie ahead, or if you actually think you can reach the prey on a sprint you might want to go first. As prey, you probably want to go first to minimize chances of the pursuers firing at you or making a sudden sprint, though you miiight prefer the pursuer go first if you're trying to set up a decoy, confuse them, or see how they'll respond.


Awesome. Great point about clarifying chase rules =/= combat rules.


Totally. I love how you put this, and I was thinking along the same lines.

I made the chase events table deliberately generic. In actual play, however, the DM would adapt them to the specific scenario on the fly. For example, say the PCs are fleeing on horse-drawn sleighs from pursuing wolves. If the PCs roll "paths converge", then maybe there's a downhill slope which the sleigh enters a dangerous slide down, and while sliding one or more of the wolves sliding down the slope come alongside the sleigh. A brief couple of attacks are exchanged before the sleigh takes the lead again, careening onto flat snow at the base of the slope...and the chase goes on!

Ahhhh I get the bidding mechanic now, and why it's worthwhile, that sounds like an excellent way to get the players immediate attention. Thanks very much Quickleaf!

 

[Imaculata]

I've been looking for a way to make chases interesting for a while now. This system has some similarities to what they have in Spycraft, but it is easier to run, and works easier with DnD rules. I might give this a try the next time a chase comes up.

 

[Quickleaf]

Let me put my response generally and why I offered the option I did:

These things you say here, the OP? WAY overthinking things. Implementing and tracking these rules is going to be cumbersome, tedious and mostly annoying. You'll run one chase and then nobody is ever going to want to chase, or be chased ever again. I got worn out just reading them.

I'm genuinely surprised you find these rules more complex than the DMG chase rules! No one else I've shared them with thought that.

If, however, you're saying these rules are equally complex as the DMG rules — which for you are both too complex — then that makes more sense as a criticism, since it indicates your preference for handling chases in a more DM fiat very rules-lite kind of way. Nothing wrong with that at all. Of course, a conversation about "chase rules" comes from the assumption that there are DMs who want to run a chase with more than just "what the DM says."

There's no point in contemplating running at 12-18MPH because like the Sharpshooer feat, you're only going to get this over flat, open ground. Running around in a city? You're going to be making corners, jumping barrels, dodging traffic and occasionally stopping to hide. Cinematic chases aren't about speed, they're about style, you didn't win because you were fast, you won because you were clever.

Absolutely, I completely agree. Of course, we both agree that speed should be some kind of factor, right? Running after a man on horseback I should have some kind of disadvantage in the chase. So that's what I strove for in these rules.

The "chase check" is about leveraging your character's strengths (proficiencies) in variable situations, providing a baseline. Then all the clever stuff comes from player ideas, timing chase actions, and responding to events/complications. I was hoping that was the sweet spot balance between brute speed and clever ideas.

 

[Quickleaf]

I've been looking for a way to make chases interesting for a while now. This system has some similarities to what they have in Spycraft, but it is easier to run, and works easier with DnD rules. I might give this a try the next time a chase comes up.

Yes, these rules are modeled on [MENTION=93321]Psikerlord#[/MENTION]'s chase rules, but then I made a bunch of changes that included looking at RPGs from the spy genre which generally receive praise for their chase rules... Spycraft, Top Secret, and James Bond 007 in particular.

I'll need to do some play-testing, possible streamline them a bit, and tweak the chase events, but the rules should be good enough to play with for now.

 

[Sugarshack]

This thread is getting a bit old, but [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION], I was wondering if you had had the chance to play test your custom chase rules since your last post ?

If so, did it go well or it was a total mess?
And did you make any adjustments to your original posted rules ?

Thanks!

 

[Quickleaf]

This thread is getting a bit old, but [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION], I was wondering if you had had the chance to play test your custom chase rules since your last post ?

If so, did it go well or it was a total mess?
And did you make any adjustments to your original posted rules ?

Thanks!

I playtested once before releasing The Beast of Graenseskov (where a version of these rules appear in the appendix). They worked fairly well for a fast-and-loose style of play.

Caveat: If you have players who insist on tracking a chase precisely on a grid, these cinematic rules would not be satisfactory for them. For us, they were enjoyable because they created lots of close calls and a sense of dynamism.

However, if I were designing them all over again, I'd be tempted to create vague "range thresholds" for Close/Short/Medium/Long that more narrative RPGs use. I think that would support the cinematic intent better and clearly articulate to simulationist players that these chase rules are the fast-and-loose kind.

 

[Sugarshack]

Cool. Thanks for your feedback.

Quick question/clarification about your rules, if you don't mind.
When the chase starts (and until otherwise noted), it looks like you're tracking the distance (between pursuer and prey) for the party as a group, and not individual distances for each character, correct ?
But if a creature decides to take an action (other than Dash), its position (or distance) drops by an amount equal to its speed.

Does that mean that this creature is now considered "out of the group", and should be tracked separately from the rest of the group ?
And therefore it would not make the "group chase check" with the group, but would have its own chase check? Right or am I missing something ?

Thanks.
And by the way this is really a nice work you did with those chase rules!

 

[Quickleaf]

Cool. Thanks for your feedback.

Quick question/clarification about your rules, if you don't mind.

Sure. It's a work-in-progress.

When the chase starts (and until otherwise noted), it looks like you're tracking the distance (between pursuer and prey) for the party as a group, and not individual distances for each character, correct ?

Correct.

But if a creature decides to take an action (other than Dash), its position (or distance) drops by an amount equal to its speed.

Correct.

Does that mean that this creature is now considered "out of the group", and should be tracked separately from the rest of the group ?

Correct. Until (if) it rejoins the group.

And therefore it would not make the "group chase check" with the group, but would have its own chase check? Right or am I missing something ?

That really depends on the circumstances of the chase scenario, and possibly the amount of distance between the individual PC and the rest of the group. From our playtest, most of the time it made sense to do a single group chase check including all PCs, even those who'd dropped away from the group.

Thanks.
And by the way this is really a nice work you did with those chase rules!

Glad you're finding them useful

 

[The Green Hermit]

When I run a chase, I want it to feel fast-paced, cinematic, and dynamic both to the players and to myself. This is nicely articulated at the DnD Hackers Guild blog. When I run chases using the 5e DMG rules, they are at best moderately-paced, only moderately-dynamic, and any cinematic flair comes from being experienced gamers and NOT the rules. They're not terrible, but they're not great.

This is perfect! Thank you!