So, that Walking Dead season finale [spoilers]

Hand of Evil said:

I found it dumb, they were dumb, it needed Ackbar screaming it's a TRAP! The places they were stopped at screamed ambush, dumb.

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I don't know what that means. What were they supposed to have done differently which would make them not dumb in your eyes?

Of course it was a trap. That was the whole point of the episode, the escalating dread and realisation that they are already trapped.

I don't think it was dread at realizing they were trapped, I think it was dread at realizing just how badly they had underestimated their foe. They went to war with limited intelligence, and this episode reveals that the Saviors are more numerous, organized, and capable than they had ANY clue.

I think of it kind of like when the Asian empires that had shut out the outside world, secure in their supremacy, suddenly had European merchants and warships show up with stuff they simply couldn't touch.

"Wait...we're...we're NOT #1?"

Morrus said:

I don't know what that means. The obvious ambush sites they retreated from screamed ambush? What were they supposed to have done diferently which would make them not dumb in your eyes?

Of course it was a trap. That was the whole point of the episode, the escalating dread and realisation that they are already trapped.

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They knew the type of people they were dealing with, they knew "someone" would die because that was the MO they had been informed would happen, a number of times from these people. They should have realized the Saviors were organized. They failed to understand the foe and prep for said foe, even though they knew the foe was still in the area. They should have realize the foe had a better understanding of the land.

Two Options:
1) Retreat to a position of strength. Maggie be damned.
2) Show strength and attack from the get go.

They realized perfectly well the Saviors were organized. We know that from the previous episode with the raid.

They just had no concept that the Saviors were as numerous, etc. as they were, and nobody else clued them in. It is highly likely that the others didn't know either.

Hand of Evil said:

They knew the type of people they were dealing with, they knew "someone" would die because that was the MO they had been informed would happen, a number of times from these people. They should have realized the Saviors were organized. They failed to understand the foe and prep for said foe, even though they knew the foe was still in the area. They should have realize the foe had a better understanding of the land.

Two Options:
1) Retreat to a position of strength. Maggie be damned.
2) Show strength and attack from the get go.

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1) They couldn't. They were trapped. All roads were blocked. They tried going back, remember.

2) Then they'd all be dead. Worst plan ever! They might be dumb, but not *that* dumb!

There's no magical tactical genius solution to this scenario. They were outmanned, outgunned, and outclassed.

I don't think they're as dumb as you ascribe them to be. They're not The A-Team, sure, but they made reasonable decisions with the information they had.

I thought it was a very unsatisfying cliffhanger. Rather than a cliffhanger, it seemed incomplete to me--like my power went out and I missed the real end of the show. Perhaps I would have appreciated the finale more if there wasn't as much hype about someone dying. I'm interested to see whether the premiere of Season 7 justifies (to me) how they end Season 6, as Scott Gimple says.

And while I thought Jeffrey Dean Morgan did a great job as Negan, when I read the comic I can't help but hear Danny McBride's voice in his lines. It would have been unlikely casting but I think he would nail the smart alec, foul mouthed, gleefully sociopathic character.

I usually am the one defending shows I watch, and rarely get bent out of shape by problems in the writing but this episode failed hugely for me and it all boiled down to that pointless cliffhanger at the end (which sucked out all the power of Negan's introduction). It has also caused me to re-evaluate the rest of the season in a different light. I feel like the show is now overly reliant on people tuning in to catch the next beat in the story rather than the quality of each episode on their own. I was defending the whole Glenn ducking under the dumpster thing when it happened, now I am not so sure. We've basically had three cliff hanger moments like that that didn't contribute much of anything to the story and feel like slight of hand, not drama. I think they need to get back to basics: character driven, not story driven, plot lines; episodes that are enjoyable to watch apart from the overall arc they fit into, and more consistency with the characters.

I don't really care much about the comics and show being the same (that they are different is one of the cool things about tuning in). But the source material they had to work with here is so good----this is really where the comic becomes interesting in my view----I just can't believe how they've fumbled it.

I did think they did a good job building up to the Negan scene with the A storyline (particularly when they found their friends belongings on the zombie chain---that was a cool moment). But it is like none of that mattered because Negan didn't do anything except do a POV camera smash. Killing someone important would have had impact in that moment, doing it in 6 months, people won't even care by then. So the scene just lost all its steam by making it a cliffhanger.

I do think the show has been subject to a lot of unfair criticism because it is popular. But this is as close as you can get to objectively bad television. I'll probably tune in for season 7, but only to see if they can right the ship not to find out who died (and if it wasn't Glenn or Daryl) I'd say they chickened out. For Negan to have his impact it really needs to be someone who has been with the show from the beginning and is well liked (Michonne and Maggie are popular enough with viewers that killing them could have a similar effect....but if it is Abraham, Rosita or anyone like that, it won't have any power).

I don't think I've ever had this negative a reaction to a show, ever (in fact this may be my first truly negative reaction to a program).

Wednesday Boy said:

And while I thought Jeffrey Dean Morgan did a great job as Negan, when I read the comic I can't help but hear Danny McBride's voice in his lines. It would have been unlikely casting but I think he would nail the smart alec, foul mouthed, gleefully sociopathic character.

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I definitely read the lines differently in my head as well (more like a Bruce Campbell voice or something). But I don't pin the blame for this on Jeffrey Dean Morgan. I think he interpreted the character well, just different from how I pictured it, and I think he has the charm and personality to pull of Negan. The biggest issue I think he has, which really isn't his fault, is he is pretty lean and part of Negan's power in the comics comes from his imposing physique (he is just much more filled out). However, I don't think that is entirely essential. As long as he convinces us we should be intimidated when it counts, then that is all that matters (and I have no doubt he'll be putting on weight between now and next season---my understanding was he had like two days to prepare for this role). If you compare the comic book and the scene, he is actually dressed pretty much identically to Negan, but it creates a much different impression because he's a bit on the skinny side.

Morrus said:

1) They couldn't. They were trapped. All roads were blocked. They tried going back, remember.

2) Then they'd all be dead. Worst plan ever! They might be dumb, but not *that* dumb!

There's no magical tactical genius solution to this scenario. They were outmanned, outgunned, and outclassed.

I don't think they're as dumb as you ascribe them to be. They're not The A-Team, sure, but they made reasonable decisions with the information they had.

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As much as I didn't like the cliffhanger, I don't think this aspect was a problem at all. They pretty clearly established over the entirety of this second half of the season that the group thought it was the A Team and had become overconfident. The build up is actually pretty good, because you can see Rick's understanding of the situation evolve into shattered confidence over the course of the episode. It is just that they didn't pay any of that off in the end.

UselessTriviaMan said:

Yep, they cliffhangered us again. It was a terrific cliffhanger, because it's damn near all fans have been talking about today. And I expect they'll keep talking for the next six months. Myself, I find it hilarious that so many of us are so worked up about a crazy cliffhanger. This wasn't done as an insult to the show's fans. It was done to set up something Awesome for next season. Myself, I'm gonna wait and see if it pays off before I start getting worked up about it. They've done a pretty bang-up job so far, in my opinion, and I'm totally willing to see where it goes next.

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I just can't imagine what they could do that would make that non-ending worth it. I thought the season was strong leading up to this, but it kind of needed to go somewhere, and it just didn't. At least for me. And I think this is the overwhelming reaction. I do agree internet fan rage gets stupid and out of control (and Walking Dead certainly has had its share of that over the years). This is different. This a moment where they really seem to have left a substantial number of people (folks who don't normally get outraged by this kind of thing) wondering why they even tuned in in the first place. A good cliffhanger should leave me wanting me, and eager to find out what happened, not going back and re-evaluating the lead up and even thinking maybe the show has little to offer at this point. I feel like too much of the pleasure of watching this show comes from the anticipation of what is about to happen, rather than enjoying the actual watching itself. I didn't feel this way before the finale.