Archer UA Miscellaneous Multiclass

Well, looking at new UA content I was thinking in a archer building, this is just about optimization, so will be min-max:

Human Variant - Sharpshooter and stealth
for 8
dex 15+1 (20 after ASI)
con 14
int 9
wis 13
cha 13+1 (16 after ASI or maybe a feat)

Warlock 3 - Archefey and pact of blade (longbow because Moon Bow)
Ranger Revised 5 - Deep Stalker
Rogue 3 - Assassin
Sorcerer 9 - Shadow

Probably start as shadow sorcerer to get CON save.
Shadow sorcerer gives darkness for 1 SP at lvl 1 and darkvision of 60ft that work in that darkness, so basicly is "like" great invisibility at level 1. The problem, start without armor. Strength of the Grave will be very usefull at low levels.
Warlock 3 gives: Moon Bow (2d8 radiant damage per spell slot, ok radiant damage to a shadow sorcerer deep stalker doesn't make any sense) and probably armor of shadows, because, well, Don't have any armor if start as sorcerer.
Fey Presence can be usefull while invisible. 2 2nd lvl spellslots per short rest.
Rogue 3 for expertise, cunning action, assassinate and sneak attack.
Deep Stalker - new Natural Explorer is amazing, archery, new primeval awareness, extra attack +30ft darkvision, +1 attack in first round, creatures with darkvision don't benefit agaist me, goodberry, pass without a trace.
The rest of shadow sorcerer - quick spell and probably extended spell, Hound of Ill Omen is expensive but desadvantage against ST can be ridiculously good.
11th level caster

Aspect of the Moon Invocation could be broken with goodberrys depending of DM's interpretation of light activity. But short rest spell slots with goodberry and recharging SP still pretty usefull.
I could get another invocation instead of shadow armor if I don't start as sorcerer, but the Con save have great weight.

Cons: MAD, low Con, this build will only work correctly at high levels. This is in fact my problem, after start as sorcerer, probably get the 3 levels of warlock, them go to ranger, them rogue and finish the rest as sorcerer.

Other option:
Warlock 3
Ranger Revised 3 (or 4 for ASI) - Deep Stalker
Rogue 3 - Assassin
Sorcerer 11 (or 10) - Old Favored Soul
this can get light and medium armor and con save at lvl 1, extra attack at lvl 6. And probably trickery domain to get pass without at trace at lvl 3.
Will need Devil's Sight as Invocation instead of shadow armor, and don't have the 1SP darkness.

Ideas?

There are lots of good ways to build an archer. I think you may be trying to touch all of them and spreading yourself too thin.

First, some common pitfalls about multiclassing: your "level 5" bonus (for you Extra attack) and ASIs. With what you are discussing you will be well behind everyone else in your party in both when you get a second attack, and how many ASIs you have. ASIs also provide feats such as Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert which are big bonuses to archer builds. Unless your DM is allowing you to start at high level and bypass this, it seems you will be significantly weaker than a single classed character until you reach mid levels.

Warlock's Moon Bow - the real advantage this brings is to be able to spend spell levels on a hit for guaranteed damage. Warlock 3 will give two 2nd level slots per short rest, and all the rest have to come from sorcerer. If you are planning on using more then a few sorcerer spells (say only a twinned buff for yourself and someone else each combat) you're short of slot to make the 3 level dip worthwhile.

Shadow sorcerer gives the darkness power at 1st ... but you don't have sorcery points to power it until 2nd level sorcerer, so plan accordingly.

Rogue Assassinate has a lot of overlap with the revised ranger, you already have the advantage on attack rolls against those who haven't gone yet. Arguably it's still worth it for the surprise critical hit if you can add in the moon bow bonus damage, but only if you plan on (a) sneaking ahead of the rest of the party regularly to get surprise (which has nothing to do with initiative) and (b) having enough high level slots to do that in lots of combats. Advantage of first round attacks plus a guaranteed extra attack from Deep Stalker do make that still worth it if you plan on leaving the party behind to be stealthy and surprise people, because it's deadly. But if you don't plan on sneaking ahead a lot, then it's 3 levels that could be giving you more for your core proficiency.

UA Ranger 6 doubles the favored enemy bonus to damage, adds another very wide category, and gives you advantage on saves against that second category. A nice boost for just 1 more level.

Blue said:

There are lots of good ways to build an archer. I think you may be trying to touch all of them and spreading yourself too thin.

First, some common pitfalls about multiclassing: your "level 5" bonus (for you Extra attack) and ASIs. With what you are discussing you will be well behind everyone else in your party in both when you get a second attack, and how many ASIs you have. ASIs also provide feats such as Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert which are big bonuses to archer builds. Unless your DM is allowing you to start at high level and bypass this, it seems you will be significantly weaker than a single classed character until you reach mid levels.

Warlock's Moon Bow - the real advantage this brings is to be able to spend spell levels on a hit for guaranteed damage. Warlock 3 will give two 2nd level slots per short rest, and all the rest have to come from sorcerer. If you are planning on using more then a few sorcerer spells (say only a twinned buff for yourself and someone else each combat) you're short of slot to make the 3 level dip worthwhile.

Shadow sorcerer gives the darkness power at 1st ... but you don't have sorcery points to power it until 2nd level sorcerer, so plan accordingly.

Rogue Assassinate has a lot of overlap with the revised ranger, you already have the advantage on attack rolls against those who haven't gone yet. Arguably it's still worth it for the surprise critical hit if you can add in the moon bow bonus damage, but only if you plan on (a) sneaking ahead of the rest of the party regularly to get surprise (which has nothing to do with initiative) and (b) having enough high level slots to do that in lots of combats. Advantage of first round attacks plus a guaranteed extra attack from Deep Stalker do make that still worth it if you plan on leaving the party behind to be stealthy and surprise people, because it's deadly. But if you don't plan on sneaking ahead a lot, then it's 3 levels that could be giving you more for your core proficiency.

UA Ranger 6 doubles the favored enemy bonus to damage, adds another very wide category, and gives you advantage on saves against that second category. A nice boost for just 1 more level.

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I forgot about lvl 2 sorcerer. The extra attack is great, but at lvl 5 sorc 2/warlock 3 this character is attacking with extra 8d8 per encounter, with advantage and being attacked with desadvantage in most cases.
Sharpshooter I will get at beggining as human v, crossbow expert is 2/3 useless for this build since moon bow only work with longbow, when reach cunning action will be even less useful.
But I agree that he need to reach mid leves to really start to work, so propably would never make that if I started at lvl 1

zaratan said:

I forgot about lvl 2 sorcerer. The extra attack is great, but at lvl 5 sorc 2/warlock 3 this character is attacking with extra 8d8 per encounter, with advantage and being attacked with desadvantage in most cases.
Sharpshooter I will get at beggining as human v, crossbow expert is 2/3 useless for this build since moon bow only work with longbow, when reach cunning action will be even less useful.
But I agree that he need to reach mid leves to really start to work, so propably would never make that if I started at lvl 1

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Why is the darkness so important at low levels? A sorc 2 has 2 sorcery points. If you disolve your three 1st level spells that's 5, still not quite enough to cover an average day (6-8 encounters, DMG pg 84).

But more importantly, why do you care if you miss? Much like a rogue that only has to hit once per turn to deliver most of their damage via sneak attack, you only need to hit once or twice per combat. If using point-buy, a vHuman Sorc 2/Warlock 3 has at best a +3 for Dex and/or Chr. Once you've used your slots, a hit does d8+3 with a bow, or two bolts of d10 (d10+3 with the EB evocation if you want to invest).

On the other hand, while it doesn't give you CON saves, Warlock 5 gives you 6d8 per slot instead of 4d8. It could also get you pact of the blade for two attacks (which is as likely as 1 attack with advantage to have at least one attack land, and also has the possibilities of both), would have an ASI for a further +1 hit/damage, and could even have Improved Pact Weapon to make it magic for another +1/+1.

(And the extra attack invocation can be swapped out by taking another level of warlock if you get extra attack through ranger.)

In the push to incorporate ALL THE GOOD IDEAS into the build, you might end up further behind than if you develop one, then add in another. Give yourself a solid foundation.

Blue said:

Why is the darkness so important at low levels? A sorc 2 has 2 sorcery points. If you disolve your three 1st level spells that's 5, still not quite enough to cover an average day (6-8 encounters, DMG pg 84).

But more importantly, why do you care if you miss? Much like a rogue that only has to hit once per turn to deliver most of their damage via sneak attack, you only need to hit once or twice per combat. If using point-buy, a vHuman Sorc 2/Warlock 3 has at best a +3 for Dex and/or Chr. Once you've used your slots, a hit does d8+3 with a bow, or two bolts of d10 (d10+3 with the EB evocation if you want to invest).

On the other hand, while it doesn't give you CON saves, Warlock 5 gives you 6d8 per slot instead of 4d8. It could also get you pact of the blade for two attacks (which is as likely as 1 attack with advantage to have at least one attack land, and also has the possibilities of both), would have an ASI for a further +1 hit/damage, and could even have Improved Pact Weapon to make it magic for another +1/+1.

(And the extra attack invocation can be swapped out by taking another level of warlock if you get extra attack through ranger.)

In the push to incorporate ALL THE GOOD IDEAS into the build, you might end up further behind than if you develop one, then add in another. Give yourself a solid foundation.

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darkness mean all attacks with advantage and all attacks agaist you with desadvantage, with sharpshooter advantage "anull" the -5 penalty, and +10 is better than 2d8 for 1 spellslot, and double the chance to crit to you 1 spell slot for 4d8. Why the d10? Moon bow doesn't work with crossbows, only with longbow. In fact, being goblin would be great for hide and desengade as bonus action, but he can't shoot longbow without desadvantage.
It could use the spellslots of warlock too to make sorcerer points, so you can cover all day.
But I agree, 2 sor/5 warlock, yes preatty more solid at beggining than 2sor/3warlock and than go to ranger.
Maybe if would go as ranger before warlock, this would delay moon bow, no armor for bigger time (desadvantage in attacks agaist me and Strength of the Grave would help), but could get archer, usefull spells and stuffs, extra attack and ASI 3 lvls early.

But the most interesting part of all this is: at begginig, I (like lot of peoples) was thinking in how OP new "smite" invocations are, most because of multiclass, but in fact they delay too much yout progression, so most of "broken" builds will not work until you reach lvl 8/10/12... I really start to think that all those new invocations are preatty solid. And if you go only as warlock, well, you only get 2 spellslots/short rest until level 11. Thinking that warlock leves probably would be priorit in that multiclass mess.

Ok, if you'll start a game at level 15, this can be amazing, but like many other builds.
A build with Curse Bringer can be more consistent, but again, not overpowered, at least until mid levels.

Trying to build a character with 4 classes is going to be an issue even if they had compatible stat requirements. Plus, your ASI/feat slots may not come for a while, leaving you potentially behind the power curve. And let's be honest, how often do we play characters all the way to Level 20? How will this character play at Level 4? Level 10?

If you want a really powerful archer I'd say stick to 2 classes. Some combo of Fighter, Ranger & Rogue will be reliably effective. I played an archer that ended at BattleMaster 8/Assassin 5 and was the most consistent damage dealer of the party, and that's without a magic bow until very late in the campaign. Going Fighter 1/Warlock X could also be fun if you want a more arcane feel. Take the fighter level for the Archery style(that +2 is SO nice), and become an Archfey Bladelock. For your invocations use the Moon Bow for the smiting & a ranged Pact longbow AND AMMO you can summon whenever, Thirsting Blade for 2 attacks, eventually Lifedrinker for the damage bonus, and Improved/Superior/Ultimate Pact Weapon to keep pace with the members of your party picking up magic weapons along the way. Plus those Moon Bow smites will eventually do 10d8 radiant(potentially 20d8 on a crit if they follow the same rules as Paladin's Divine Smite, which I think they should based on the wording).